Today, I had a conversation with Mikael Jasin, the best barista in the world. We will talk about baristas, coffee, and related topics. Let's Go Mikael. Hello, thank you for taking the time to come here. Thank you for the invitation. I see that there are many items here; it seems like we will also have coffee later. Yes, later we can make coffee right here. Alright, let's start now because when I found out that we were inviting you, I was really curious about many things because I love coffee. I enjoy drinking coffee. Okay, but I don't understand anything about it. I don't understand anything about coffee. What I know is that every time I drink coffee, I'm at Citos, in Leberika, he Leberika Citos, asking for an Americano, sitting by the road in the alley at Citos, that's on the side there, that's all I know. And I can't, I don't understand why it tastes better than the others. If it's for me, I will definitely go there continuously. I can't express why it tastes good on my tongue, why is it different? But what's clear is I like it, that's why I want to ask you today. First and foremost, what is the difference between an Americano and Black Coffee, long Black, long Black? Yes, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Because in the menu, there are usually two options: Long Black and Americano. Why are there both, what is the actual difference? Actually, when it comes to coffee, there isn't really a right or wrong. It's because, you know, when it comes to food and drinks, there are no strict standards that must be strictly followed. But indeed, in terms of tradition, Americano is a coffee made using an Espresso machine, with one shot of Espresso. This Espresso shot is usually small, as Espresso is extracted from the portafilter. It is then poured into the cup. Americano is made using only one side, so it's a single shot. After that, more water is added, for example, filling the cup to a certain level. Okay, pour it in, pour in what comes first, the coffee or the water, not really a big issue actually. Even though some people make a fuss about it. Yes, indeed, when it comes to Espresso, it's not really necessary to pour the water first, because it's already done. Maybe in the first 5 seconds, the appearance may differ visually, but after that, it's the same. Okay, but the difference with Long Black is that Long Black has two shots of Espresso. Oh, that's the only difference. So, in terms of, for example, a barista class, they are taught the difference. Actually, that's all it is. So, why isn't

It's called Americano because back in the days during World War II, these American soldiers went to Europe, right, for the war, right, in Italy. There were already Espresso machines. So, if Espresso is just a small shot, right? Okay, now in America, they are used to drinking coffee in those diners, the coffee that is already big, you know, big. So, when they drink Espresso, it's too intense, that's why they were asked if they could add water, right? So, that's why it's called Americano. Oh, because back then, the history of drinking coffee, which is in Italy, right? There is no such thing, what? There is no, there is none, they call their drinks Espresso Bar, they don't even sit down, they just order coffee, drink it, and leave. Oh, it's different, different habits, right? So, for us, if Americans maybe make it while hanging out, right? While eating, while hanging out like that. Okay, I have a friend named Pangeran, he, the first time he drank coffee, he ordered Espresso because it was the cheapest, he said. But when it came out, he was really surprised, just this much. That's not common for us, but drinking Espresso here, I rarely do it, very rarely because it's small, people don't really like it because it's intense, right? And to be

From there, from a young age, it was given milk, sugar, or water, right? Because it's intense, that's why it can be mixed with other ingredients. I really don't understand the difference at all. Here's another one, the difference between flat white and cappuccino, okay. So, FL white and cavallette, right, yes. What's the difference? So actually, in practice now, the difference is only in the foam, right? The latte is thicker, the foam is thicker. Yes, thicker. Flat white, flat, right, there's no foam, it's very thin, just a little foam, only on the foam. But historically, yes, that's why historically, latte, in Italian, it means just milk. So actually, when you say cafe latte, it's coffee with slightly thick milk foam, okay. If it's a flat white, in Australia, they don't really like thick foam, so they call it flat because the milk is white and thin, so they call it flat white. Flat white is from Australia, yes, Australia and New Zealand, depending on who you ask. But the recipe for flat white in Australia and the recipe for flat white in New Zealand are also different. So actually, flat white is just about the foam, how the milk is steamed is slightly different. Oh, it's different. But actually, it's similar, just slightly thick or thin

People, I like coffee so much that I made it one of the episodes on Sunday night, mingo. Robusta and Arabica, what are the differences between them? They are different species. If we talk about coffee, the genus is the same. Actually, there are around 140 species of this coffee. If I'm not mistaken, the most famous ones are Arabica and Robusta. Okay, Robusta has high caffeine content, so it's very bitter. Very bitter. Then, if people usually can't handle it or get stomachaches because they can't handle the caffeine, oh, that's Robusta. But many people also like it, especially men because it's strong and kicks in. Arabica, on the other hand, is a bit more sour in taste. The difference is like... When I go to cafes in Jakarta, most of the time, if we order Americano coffee, is it Robusta or Arabica, or can we choose? There are many places where you can choose. That's it. Usually, as a common practice now, if you order Americano, Long Black, or Espresso, it's Arabica. Then, for coffee with milk, there's usually a mix of Arabica and Robusta, or sometimes it's all Robusta, but usually, you can tell by the price. If it's very cheap, it's mostly Robusta. If it's more expensive, it's usually Arabica. Oh, so

Are you competing in the barista championship? I'm really sorry, but I'm super clueless, so I don't really understand what actually happens in the competition. In terms of profession, being a barista means what? Making coffee, right? Yes, what are you competing in then, like how to make the coffee? I mean, like the technique? Yes, maybe not many people used to pay attention, but now quite a lot of people are aware because in Indonesia, people really enjoy coffee. So, the profession of being a barista is kind of cool now, like being a chef, there are celebrity chefs, and now there are celebrity baristas, right? So, people are starting to be more aware. We have a World Cup every year. Okay, the World Cup. So, we have seven branches, not just one. Not just one, so it's like the Olympics, right? It's similar to football, where there's FIFA, in coffee, there's the Specialty Coffee Association, which is like the governing body, the biggest organization. So, this global organization mandates to local organizations. Just like football has PSSI, we have SCAI, our local organization for coffee. This organization exists because without it, we can't participate in the World Cup. Oh, that's cool. And there's also naturalization. The difference is, for naturalization, there must be Indonesian blood. Uh, if.

The coffee player, a coffee athlete, has been working in the country for 2 years and has a work visa, he can participate. Even though he is a foreigner, even though he is a foreigner, his passport is not an Indonesian passport. For example, like me, I once competed in Australia. Oh, but yes, if you win, you represent Australia, it just happened that I didn't win at that time, but there are a few examples that, well, if he represents Australia, for example, but he is Korean or Japanese, for example. Yes, the important thing is that he has been working for 2 years. According to the regulations, so there are seven branches, what branches are there? There is one called the World Barista Championship. Yes, that's where everything is assessed, and it's the most complete one. 15 minutes, 12 drinks, and we have to present our innovation or idea, like a TED Talk, but in 15 minutes, just talking, right? Yes, here we are making coffee while doing it, like making four espressos, four milks, so it's hot coffee, right, four times, and it's called a Signature beverage, like our own creation, but it can't contain alcohol, okay, four times. Then there's latte art, latte art is usually drawing on it, right? Then there's manual brew, manual brewing, there's coffee roasting

I tried, there are four judges who see if our technical is correct or not, if the tempting is right or not, if the dosing is right, there are two, there are three judges, so quite a lot, if I'm not mistaken, after each competition, the judges don't sleep for a month, quite a lot like that. Wir, yeah, he drinks too much coffee, he has to taste them all, right? Okay, okay, then, then, then, then, it means there are 12 drinks served in 15 minutes. Earlier, you said, for example, Signature B, what do you mean by EMP? EMP means exactly the same, four exactly the same because there are four judges, right? Oh, I thought it was judged based on consistency, right? Not really, it's not like that because they are judged by the judges, but after this, the judges talk to each other like, How was it earlier? It tasted good. Oh, mine wasn't good. Like that, so it's also seen here that, oh, it's not consistent. So overall, maybe it's not the best or the most skilled that day because it's not consistent. Even though there is one drink that is really good, but the other one is lacking, for example, G, okay, okay, then, then, that's just one branch that you participated in, the others are slightly reduced, right? The others are

So, from Indonesia, they're great. Okay, I've watched something like a coffee taster on YouTube. I don't understand if he's lying or not. Because when he's given coffee and he drinks it, there's a slight fruity taste. Is it stored in a jar or is it stored in a room with fruits? Oh yeah, that's right. Is it really true? Is it true or not, like that? So, if the taster, there's a championship too. So there's a championship, they taste the coffee, there's a crazy championship. So, there are three cups, right? Two are the same, and one is different. He has to choose which one is different, right? Okay, okay. Then, usually, coffee is fruity, bitter, or sour, right? It's not because next to it, there's an orange tree, so it tastes like orange. But indeed, if the land is like a diversity of plants, the taste usually becomes more fruity, more complex, because the soil is healthy. So, in the coffee beans, they have the character of the soil. Yes, there is. So, for example, in Gayo, it's different from West Java coffee because the conditions are different, the soil is different. For example, one is more fertile, more volcanic, for example, so it's different because of that, but it requires a high sensitivity of the taste buds, you know,

Maybe they can't differentiate, maybe they can, but don't know why, right? It's like, Oh, maybe it's like me, right? It could also be because maybe if we don't understand, it's assumed, Oh, this brand is the same, what's the difference? Because it's just a different brand or a different machine, right? Actually, from the beginning, even from the planting itself, it's also different how much influence, I mean how different the barista's touch is quite influential. If the tools are not that advanced, it affects quite a bit. The more advanced the tools are, the more it affects the selection of products. Knowledge is more important than technical aspects. But if, for example, we brew manually or the tools are very standard, it doesn't facilitate it, there's no automation. This barista has quite an influence because they have to do it manually. For example, after grinding, the way they prepare the espresso shot, the way they steam the milk, it's all different. It's all different. So earlier you said you have to prepare a Signature beverage and it has to be presented, and you were the champion in the World Championship, right? So, what about your Signature beverage? Usually, a Signature beverage is not only judged by its taste, but it also has to summarize the theme we present. Okay, in what year was it? What was the theme, like for example,

Mind, body, and soul, like that, so coincidentally, its signature beverage is a summary of that, so the coffee is from Colombia yesterday, okay, then added with cacao nibs from Kalimantan. Okay, after that, given syrup made from a tree called paloanto, so paloanto is when you often go to a yoga studio or places for meditation, this is usually the bark that is burned to help us, like aromatherapy, it is made into syrup. So, the syrup is burnt first, then added with vanilla, infused with sugar, like that. Well, you prepare it yourself, right? Yes, you prepare it yourself, then what else? Oh, there's milk that is clarified, so the solids are separated with lemon, like that. So, there's already milk. Here, it's like making cheese or tofu, so milk is put with anything acidic, but actually, at that time, we used lemon, so it separates, it curdles the milk, so there are some that rise, some that solidify, like making yogurt. When you open yogurt, there are some who like the clear part, the bottom part that settles, right? Now, this settling part, we remove it, we use the clear one. So, the clear part is the protein that tastes like milk but not as strong as milk, like that. So, you make it yourself, and your beverage's name is, we

Give a star mark because Moka is not very Moka-like, right? Moka is usually chocolate and coffee, right? Okay, so because there is chocolate in it, the chocolate is from Berau, from Kalimantan. Where do you source that from? So, there is a friend who is really crazy about chocolate, so he is really a chocolate worker, like that. So, he has chocolate bars, he has cocoa nips before they become chocolate bars, and he also collaborates with local cocoa farmers. Okay, so we help, not really help, we ask them for help. Then, we buy their products and use them. Why chocolate? Because chocolate and coffee have different tastes. Some are more sour, some are more bitter. So, this Berau one is quite sour, but not as bitter as other chocolates. Oh, how long did it take you to make this Signature beverage? There is a creative process, right? How was it? It took quite a while, maybe a month, 3 months, maybe 5 months of trial and error, 5 months, 5 months, 5 months because sometimes there's a bit too much. So, it needs to be reduced, and the way it's presented, and what is evaluated. Not just how good the coffee tastes, but conceptually. So, if the concept is mindfulness, for example, then if the cup is

The color is very striking. It's less meditative, right? So, we have to Oh, until the handle, right? What do we use for that? So, yesterday, there was a ceramic craftsman from Japan who made it. Wow, the shape is like what? Like a whiskey glass, so the bottom is wide and then tapers upwards, but the cup's name is The Moon. Why? Because originally it was smooth, right? Japanese people are very poetic, so he already made it smooth, gave it a gold color, then he deliberately scratched and sanded it so that it became rough and pockmarked, like the moon has craters, right? But it's rough like this, but on top, it's smooth so that people can see the contrast. Oh, wow, the philosophy is that if you don't feel the roughness, you can't appreciate the smoothness, that's it. Okay, very artistic, isn't it? Yes, okay, so you can also choose the glass yourself, right? Yes, in the end, what do you pour into it? That this is a combination of mindfulness, right? Yes, the presentation actually, so the thing is, if someone is an artist who becomes a world champion, one of the criteria is that we have to be thought-provoking, we have to make people think, right? Or how after watching our presentation, they're like, Oh, right, that

There are many ways to innovate. Is it a new coffee extraction method? Well, this innovation is about how to enjoy coffee, actually. Sometimes, especially nowadays, there are many distractions like phones, emails, and so on. Sometimes, we find it hard to enjoy our coffee because we are always in a rush, not stopping to appreciate it, not stopping to stop and smell the flowers. I'll tell you a story. I was quite burnt out from competing a lot. I've been competing for 10 years, so I was really tired and didn't know what to do. So, I decided to step away from the competition for a while. Stepping away made me realize that we need to find a balance between mind, body, and soul. So, the presentation was about how sometimes we need to stop and smell the flowers to appreciate what's in front of us before we go back to our busy lives. They thought it was an innovative enough idea to make it the winner. But, this is very much like stand-up comedy to me because when you tap into your anxieties, you end up winning.

Actually, you also participated several times, right? Fourth place, seventh place, right? But when you're really tired of competing, finally, oh, what do I feel? I feel this continuously. You turn it into coffee, right? Yes, the victory is actually in that, the story is so funny according to me. Yes, because maybe people can see like being vulnerable, being personal, right? Not just talking about coffee. Yeah, like in stand-up comedy, there are also many that I follow, like talking about it again, for example, going through a divorce, so making jokes about it, or childhood trauma, making jokes so that people can connect more, right? Oh, I also feel Burn Out. Oh, I also feel this, like going through a divorce or something like that. What are you doing, what are you making? Oh, so in terms of judging the art, it's much simpler compared to real branches of art. So, what's important for us is symmetry, then contrast, there's brown color, there's white color, right? Like coffee, brown is already good, okay, so we made a heart drawing yesterday, that's the most standard, right? Oh, but if the kids join, they can go up to drawing a dolphin, a Pegasus, it's amazing, really. It has become a canvas, it can be drawn on.

All kinds of strange pictures, yes, yes, they are all different, different skills, yes, very different. I was asked to join that Tarkam champion, not sure, yes. Okay, but I want to discuss this. How come you ended up here like that? Hmm, because if I'm not mistaken, your bachelor's degree in Melbourne, what school was that? It's a double major school. One is in psychology and the other in Cinema and Cultural Studies. Very diverse, right? Yes, diverse. So, usually, many people focus on cinema in their studies, not just watching films, because usually, Bachelor of Arts students need to work in coffee shops or other jobs. Oh, I see. While working in a coffee shop, then for your master's, it's in marketing, so it's not related, there's no connection with coffee. So, where did the coffee part come from? I needed a job, so during school, you have to find ways to earn money, right? So, at that time in Melbourne, I initially worked in retail, then worked in other jobs, and after maybe 2-3 years of working in retail, I got bored. I wanted to work in something I like, and in Melbourne, the coffee industry started booming around 2000, what was it, 2012, becoming a cultural trend. Yes, so where do people usually go? People like to have coffee, they can have it

It's not like she immediately became a barista, she was asked to wash the dishes first, then to watch the table, wait, wait tables. After that, she was finally taught how to make coffee. So, what was initially out of necessity and urgency, eventually became a way of life. If I remember correctly, you studied at Elight, right? At Iight. I see Melbourne as a hipster city. If I were to describe it, it's very artsy. It seems very cultural. It's like that, actually. The people may seem boring, the city itself is very quiet. It seems like the perfect place for you to study coffee there because the scene is really thriving, right? Yes, so back then, I read your book, it was in 2008. My books were from 2005. Yes, 2005. I graduated from high school in 2008. Okay, so because of reading your book, I wanted to study in Australia, right? Seriously. Because maybe I read it in 2007, before graduating. So, I had this dream to study there. I told my parents, Can I study in Australia? Oh, do we have the money? So, I thought, let's just travel first. It just so happened that at that time, my school had some sort of exchange program where students from that school happened to

From adelight 2 weeks to exchange my position there for 2 weeks, okay, well, there's nothing wrong. Adelight Git people, when they are lazy, they come back, but I'm the only one who likes it, like it's just me, right? Closing like that, isn't it? Life, there's nothing, right? Actually, it's quite nice compared to, especially the usual stuff in Jakarta, right? It's like really bustling, right? When we, Fadil and I, went there, not just the two of us, we all went there together. And when we arrived at the airport, there was nothing, right? Is it a deal, right? Because we know what the airport is like, right? At the airport, there are people coming out, carrying all kinds of things. Then my wife said, in front of the airport. Yes, in front of the airport. Yes. There's nothing, no taxis, no taxis, there are no people pulling luggage or anything. As far as the eye can see, it's empty. And when we went to the city, it was all empty, there were no people on the sidewalks, it was so empty. But I really love it, I really love it. Yes, like from the plane, when we were about to land, like when going back to Jakarta, you see a lot of buildings, right? But there, you only see a small patch

The place is okay, it's fun. Not the first time, but maybe the second or third time, anyway, it's decent, decent start, lacking a student card, but after that, looking around the school, finally, after that, maybe in the same year, we went to Melbourne and also to Sydney. Okay, let's see, schools, which one do you think is suitable? Sydney is too hectic, too similar to Jakarta, yes, very crowded. So, in the end, Melbourne, because it feels like coming, oh, this is it. Suitable, it seems like I used to be a social science student, so it's like, oh, very social and artsy. There are cafes, bars, museums, the students are not very neat, you know, they are all trendy kids. Yes, when I was in high school, it was quite strict, so that's why when I went there, it was like, wow, can wear casual clothes, right? Yes, yes. Are there still fishermen there? Yes, there are still fishermen. If you go to eat there, there's an Indonesian restaurant. Shout out to the fishermen. There's Gultik there. Oh, yes, yes, there's Gultik there. When I last went there, there was no Gultik yet. Yes, yes, in another area, maybe there is now, yes, yes, okay. But everyone can be a barista

Actually, I participated back in 2013 in Melbourne as the host of the World Barista Championship, so it was the first time I saw that, like, Wow, turns out being a barista has a career path, right? Like, you can become a world champion in barista competitions, so you don't need to work as a lawyer, in an office, or anything like that to have a career path, right? So, I wanted to take it seriously because I saw it as an opportunity to learn, an opportunity to improve my career, and of course, to increase my salary and all that. So, I followed that from the beginning, in 2014, I joined the competition, and if you compete, you use English, so at the same time, it's also to improve my English. At that time, maybe around 3-4 years in Melbourne, you could enter school, right? But the English used daily is different, like English for public speaking and presentations is very different. So, I used that for actual learning compared to the past, like 10, oh, how many years ago was it, around 10 years ago, I couldn't imagine becoming a World Champion, right? It was so far from your mind, right? So far, right? Yes, like those who usually participate, there are around 50 countries, not to mention reaching that point. You have to win at the regional level, at the national

The national level can only be like that, right? Like a child playing football dreaming of becoming Ronaldo. It's like that, right? It's like totally different, the meaning is very far off, but well, it's pursued eventually. In the end, after a long time, it can be achieved. How? I mean, do you read books or learn from a Master barista, or how? Yes, coffee has been a trend lately, just in the last few years, there are schools. I mean schools that can provide a bachelor's degree like a Bachelor of Arts in it, are available now. Oh, there are even Master's degrees now. A Bachelor's in barista, a Bachelor's in coffee, actually. Yes, a Bachelor's in coffee. Coffee as one of the subjects. Well, in the past, there weren't any, so back then, it was just learning on the job, being taught by seniors. There were forums back then, not as prevalent as social media is now, right? There was no Instagram, no YouTube. It also wasn't that big back then, so it was more like home barista forums, something like Kaskus. So, after observing that, you try it out at work, ask your barista friends. Then, if you participate in competitions, you can get feedback from the judges. So, the following year, you apply it. The following year, you apply it. So, there's

Back in my time, it wasn't like the old days, just school. How to make coffee? Oh, 3 hours, 4 hours, like a barista course, right? A course like that, right? Okay, then, after that, you go there, right? Okay, now there is a real curriculum. So, this isn't just random, right? It's cool, so what YouTube video, YouTube, do you watch? Yes, there are many on YouTube. Then, eventually, because of competitions at the circuit, there are coaches and all that, but back then, it was really from YouTube, and then, it was just tried out like that. That's why now we also have a YouTube channel for making coffee, so that friends who are just learning can watch it too. I'm interested in coaching, how is it with coaching, like a barista coach, right? Is it on the side like the real deal, right? How is it with this barista coach when in competition? There shouldn't be any coaching. It's a bit like tennis, right? So, you present. Then, coaching is not allowed, you can't intervene, right? But during daily practice, he helps with the presentation, how we speak, and the words we use must be related to the scoresheet, right? Then, he coaches to try the coffee, like, how should it taste? For example, should the dosage be increased or

Because the topic always revolves around what is considered as innovation, it changes depending on the cycle, depending on the industry's needs. Sometimes, maybe the needed innovation is something like mindfulness. When it was talked about, yes, like post-COVID, right? After COVID, many people were quite stressed, not going anywhere, just staying at home, not going out, so it's quite in demand. But before that, for example, about sciences, and other things, okay. When you were in Melbourne, then you became a world champion, right? But now, you're only at the top, right? But before, you were ranked 4th, ranked 7th, did it affect your career as a barista in Melbourne? Not really, right? So, were you promoted to be a head barista, for example? When I finally won the national championship and returned to Indonesia, oh, so when I was in Melbourne from 2008 to 2017, 9 years of barista competition, the first in 2014, if I'm not mistaken. He won twice, in 2014 and 2015. After that, moved to Indonesia, then started competing again. After becoming a national champion, then becoming a world champion, how was your career? It was quite helpful, because in the past, we always worked with others, always, but already had a business, also working for others, right? Okay, right, for

His career advanced, his salary increased, given other opportunities like that. Then, eventually, after that, he became a partner with them, and then started his own business like that. Oh, so there are many baristas in Indonesia and everywhere who really want to compete to improve their lives because, okay, okay, in Indonesia, especially, the job of a barista, well, the salary has no ceiling, right? It's not very high. So, many people use this as a career ladder. But in the end, the cafes also became like boutique cafes, right? Because if you want to market, well, the expertise in making coffee, you really have to go to a place like an artisan coffee shop, right? I mean, yes, cafes like that usually, if you want to create something exactly like in competitions, you can't, you have to be a true artisan, you have to be small. But indeed, this knowledge can be applied on a larger scale for big coffee businesses like the cafes now, with hundreds of branches, chain stores, they also have a lot of knowledge applied from barista championships to the business, whether in terms of innovation in making coffee, in terms of coffee machines. Okay, like that. So, I want to buy this, where is your champion coffee? Do we have a cafe in BSD? There is a cafe in BSD, there is a cafe in BSD, which is not like a regular cafe, right? In

So we named it Oma Cafeoke because when you come there, you can't order a long black or a flat white. So when people come, they may want Indonesian coffee, for example. From this Indonesian coffee, there are several drinks that we serve that we believe can highlight its flavor profile. There are those who prefer just black coffee, sometimes filter coffee, sometimes manual brew, sometimes long black. Then there are those with milk, and the milk is not just cow's milk, but mixed with oat milk, cashew milk, mixed milk, and so on. Then there are the signature beverages. When I come, I will definitely come to Oma Cafe, Oma Cafe BD, which is located in Zora. It's near a school, behind Kubik, maybe most people know Kubik, it's like a big compound. This is in the Zora area, that's the name of the place, Oma Cafe. When I go there, I imagine that we come, we just accept it, right? What would you like me to make for you? like that. Yes, please make me something. Wow, it's so cool. But I don't understand anything, it's okay, it's okay. So our goal there is for people who come, even if they don't understand at first, they will understand because it will eventually be explained. Usually, when they come once, it's around 1.

Half an hour of experience, one and a half hours become the lineups there, they are better at speaking than making coffee because sometimes people don't dislike coffee, but they don't understand. Yes, so sometimes they need to be told rather than Wow, this is the best coffee in the world, right? It's not explained why this is the best coffee in the world, it's heavy, I'm really interested in the concept. The idea will be renewed how often. So, every 3 months, we change the season, we say, I am very inspired by friends, chefs, those fine dining people like them, sourcing ingredients, for example, then from Farm to Table concept, or those who change seasons. So, we change the season every 3 months. In two days, we will shoot, what day is it? Tuesday, Thursday, then we will launch a new season every 3 months. And when people come, we show them our fermentation room, our ingredients are fermented, then we show them the kitchen, our preparation room, then they sit and try. Yes, I rarely drink coffee now. I really like coffee, but now I rarely drink coffee because of this gastric acid. Yes, so I drink it only once or twice a week. How many coffees is that? Three coffees, but we make them.

The serving size is smaller, right? So, if we total it up, it might be around 1 to 1.5 cups of coffee, one glass. I mean, because it's separated, one hour, one hour, ready to brush, why not? It was made there in Melbourne. So, at that time, I moved because if you want to be in Australia, you need PR, meaning permanent resident. You need to be a permanent resident. One of the options available at that time was that I had to work at the place where I actually worked, which was also co-owning. So, I was invited to be a partner. But if you want to be a permanent resident, it takes 4 or 5 years, right? Oh, to stay there in the same place with the same job. Compared to if I returned to Indonesia at that time, in 2017, the coffee was booming. Indonesia is also a coffee-producing country, so I thought maybe if I return to Indonesia for 5 years and then spend 5 years in Australia, I would have a better chance in Indonesia. Even though the salary is much lower, like the salary in Australia and in Indonesia, when I returned, I had to pay 75%, not 75%, yes, it's imbalanced like that. Okay, but this decision was correct, thankfully, thankfully, it paid off. Okay, okay, thank you so much for coming today, Mik

You bring this coffee, what kind of coffee is this introduced first, right? So actually, making coffee doesn't need to be too complicated, just the more complicated we usually are, the more we can replicate the recipe like that. So we weigh, we measure the water, for example, or what so that if it tastes good, we can repeat it like that because the measurements are all the same because the measurements are the same and then the water, what is it, the same. Oh, is it a tumbler or something? Actually, this is a French press but a slightly more modern version. Oh, this is a French press so this coffee is from West Java, from Mount Haluopi, West Java, from Mount Halu, Mount Halu in Soreang Regency, Soreang, which regency is this, is it where you can buy it or how? Yes, this happens to be from our place and the coffee beans we work directly with the farmers, Rani is the name. Oh, that's the farmer's name. Yes, so one of our businesses is actually green bean export. This is the green beans we work with before being roasted, they are green in color, right? Yes, so the ones exported are usually before being roasted. This is what we work with quite a lot of farmers to help represent Indonesian coffee on the international stage, something like that. By the way, these glasses are very auntie-like,

Put it in the grinder. Yes, this is a manual grinder. It's ground. After that, actually, sometimes people are confused about what to buy first when they want to invest in making coffee at home. We always recommend that the coffee beans should be as fresh as possible. Not the coffee beans, the coffee itself. Don't grind the coffee first. Sometimes people buy coffee, like to drink coffee at home, they buy the coffee and ask for it to be ground, then keep it for 2 months. That's not good because once it's ground, the aroma disappears immediately. The smell is really nice. Yes, so it's very fresh. The freshness can only be achieved if we grind it fresh. So, how long should I keep it at home if, for example, I buy this? Actually, coffee doesn't have an expiration date, but in terms of optimum taste, it's usually around a maximum of 2 months. 2 months, right? Yes, Ernes, my friend, when I was shooting with him, he brought this and seemed very determined. So, you're not grinding it, you're not making coffee, right? You like coffee, don't you? Oh, I have Nes, it's called Go-Food, I said. But for him, it tastes different, he said. It turns out it's really that significant. It's quite good if.

People like honestly, at home, I rarely make coffee. Okay, my wife is also a coffee person, she's a Champion barista, but sometimes we don't even have any coffee at home. So, if we feel lazy to go out, we just call the kids at the café to send us coffee. What's more, it's already done. Yes, it's done. Or just buy it from an online platform because maybe due to work, that's how it is. But, this method is also calming, right? When you wake up in the morning, sometimes doing this is also practical mindfulness, like when someone takes 5 minutes to enjoy their coffee. So, it can slow down and enjoy life, right? Wow, the smell is so good, crazy. Yeah, it's pretty good. So, how can I try this at home? Actually, it's very easy. This is the easiest way to make coffee because essentially it's kopi tubruk (Indonesian traditional coffee brewing method), right? So, we put the coffee in earlier, then pour hot water. The most standard recipe is 60 grams of coffee per liter of water. This was around 20 grams earlier. Okay, so that's the standard international recipe that people usually start with.

60 grams of coffee, 100... oh sorry, 1 liter. So, if the coffee is 30, eventually 500, okay, proportional, right? Proportional. Earlier, it was 20 grams, so looking at it here. Now, there are 280. It is made slightly thicker because coincidentally, the coffee suits a slightly thicker ratio. Okay, the timing is set for what? So, when we extract this coffee with hot water, it's like cooking. Yes, we don't want the cooking to take too long. So, we time it with a timer, usually around 4 minutes, then we will press it using the filter, this metal filter. After that, we can pour it to drink the coffee. Oh, so it's already ground earlier, with the grams measured here, and the water as well. The liter markings are here, but let's just use it. So, earlier we put it in. Then, for example, earlier it was 20 grams, after that, it can be noted again. After that, we add the amount of water, the amount of water is visible here. Yes, the earlier 280 is the amount of water, 280 grams of water. Oh, okay, okay, okay, let's pour it in here and wait for 4 minutes. 4 minutes, 4 minutes. Then, later we stir it a little, then we press it down. Just 40

Oh my goodness, why did you bring this one here today? This is Siu, also known as Teh Rani. She is one of the farmers we work with the most because she is one of the closest ones. Usually, Kebon Kopi is quite far away, but she is very... what is it... she is an example of a farmer who pushes herself to modernize so that she doesn't get left behind, to stay relevant, right? To stay relevant, exactly. So, she not only works as a farmer, but she also processes her waste. It's cool, right? Whatever can be turned into money. So, it's not just processing the waste as compost, for example, but turning it into briquettes, then selling them. The briquettes that are usually just thrown away by her, she turns them into briquettes, right? Then she also opened a cafe, so she's really a businesswoman. It's not just about doing one thing, she's really cool. I was served by the best barista in the world. By the way, we just had a bit of coffee earlier, it was still good. Oh right, so something as simple as this can also work, right? It can. Sometimes people think it has to be complicated, right? Or how is it, whereas, as I always say and just realized not long ago, sometimes we make the best coffee but that's it.

Just drinking like that without savoring it, right? Whereas, when the coffee is good, then we take a moment to relax first, to inhale the aroma first. Yes, then drink it. Actually, it can be more enjoyable. Let's try it. I was surprised. Wow, yes, it's quite acidic, but what is the right definition for this? Yes, so this Arabica, well, this Arabica from Halu, right? Arabica, Arabica, indeed, one of its characteristics is quite sour. But sour in the mouth, not the sour like the chemical sourness. There are different types of sourness, there is chemical acidity, there is acidity in terms of taste. So, with Arabica, the acidity is more pronounced, but in terms of the chemical acidity level, compared to Robusta, actually Robusta is higher. Okay, that's why, if you drink too much, it can cause stomach ache as well, but it can be safer for the stomach, so to speak. Wow, this is really delicious, amazing. But in that case, what is the difference compared to the big machines that we see in cafes? With this method, we can make delicious coffee. So, what is a machine actually? So, the machine, it's called an Espresso machine, mostly. So, this Espresso machine, it makes the coffee using pressure. Yes, pressure. Because it uses pressure, the coffee that comes out

Mili, who is already the biggest one. This one, when mixed with other ingredients, its taste doesn't disappear, for example, when mixed with milk and sugar, the coffee taste is still there. Now, if this kind is mixed, like the usual one, like when you order iced milk coffee in a big glass, then mix it with milk and sugar, the taste can disappear. Oh, and there are some people who drink this, it's too light, like my dad gave me this. What is this, is it dishwashing water or something? Oh no, then many people still like it, whether it's the machine or the coffee made in the machine, which indeed cannot be made heavier if it could, but because it only uses gravity, compared to those that use a pump, it will still be very different. Oh, that's why sometimes when I drink coffee there, it's dark and thick, yes, that can only be obtained from an Espresso machine. So, in terms of concentration, like this, 98% or 99.5% is water. If it's Espresso, it's around 92% water, 92 to 88% water. Oh, so if we drink coffee at a cafe, I usually drink the black one. The concentration of the espresso is higher there, is it the same or different actually? Actually, in terms of concentration, yes, the intensity of the drink. But in terms of the amount

The one that is being left alone for a long time, he Heeh, all night long, right, gentlemen, often bumping into it until the next morning before drinking it again, right, it has higher caffeine because it's left to brew for a long time, that's the term, okay, yes, so it's just the intensity of the taste that's different, very exciting, very exciting, very exciting. Thank you, Mikael, for coming here, already making coffee, I will definitely come to oma kaafe, right. Yes, thank you, what time does it open? We open at 10 a.m. until 10 p.m., closed on Tuesdays for the kids to rest and for r&b, then the rest of the time we are always open. Okay, good luck to everyone. Thank you, goodbye everyone.

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