it's a massively bullish sign that Trump even went there. We were talking about the president of the United States of America. You can't get bigger than that. Really, it makes me feel bullish about everything, imagining him winning the election. And after that, yeah, I think we are going to the Moon. Definitely, we are going to the Moon. I was one of the, you know, one of those sheep, you know, um, just a few years ago, but Bitcoin completely changed me. These people are not going to go down without fighting. Just look at the Bitcoin conference. The last 10 years, the first one with like 100 people in the conference room, half empty, and Andreas Antonopoulos is speaking, and nobody's listening. 10 years later, you have a conference with 20,000 people. They are lining up a whole day to get in to see the 47th president of the United States. We'd like to see things like that in Europe. And you just came from Prague here to Vienna just for a visit. Yes, yes.

um well, I've been in Austria before, but never in Vienna, so this is my first time. So I'm looking forward to, you know, discovering this city later on, later this evening, you know, exploring different places in Vienna. So yeah, and it's the home of Austrian economics. It's really, how far down the rabbit hole did you go with Austrian economics? I mean, a little bit is in every Bitcoin. Yeah, and some went really deep, uh, some are like, oh, okay, a little bit. How, how deep? I must say, I'm not really that deep, but I'm aware of it. Yeah, um, I kind of learned the basics of it, but I've got quite a few friends around me. Um, I don't want to mention in the names, but um, there is this particular young lad. I think he's 17, maybe 18 now. He's from Turkey. He's mad about it. I think he, he must have read like, I don't know, at least seven, eight, maybe 10 books about it, you know. He's, if, if I have any trouble, trust me, I'm going.

to go to him you know he knows everything inside out but um yeah a economics is is is really you know important for all Bitcoins as well. All Bitcoin is yeah yeah it's interesting for me because I am from Austria. I studied for a short time economics in Austria and there is no Austrian economics. I even talked with people that were having decrease in Austrian economics in Austria right but they never talked about uh aan economics it's not a not it's not it's all kesian uh things yeah yeah and we talked before uh What uh what you kind of like you are on a free 3 we STP so you did not like you did not wear in the Bitcoin space too much but you still heard about Trump right. Yes I did yes I did and um you know I read quite a few things um on Twitter about it and I thought okay is it really that bad you know I have to watch it for myself so um just a couple nights ago I watched it okay it wasn't all that but at the

end of the day, you know, uh, Donald Trump is a politician. He promoted himself a lot, as expected, um, and he said a few things about Bitcoin, few more other things about crypto. He just mixed it up, as you know. Um, it wasn't like pure Bitcoin stuff, but um, it is what it is. It is what it is, you know. No bad, you know. They say, you know, there is no bad publicity, you know. So yeah, and I think just the just the thing that he was around at the Bitcoin conference, like that he uh came to the Bitcoin conference, that's a huge thing, like I think it is, you know, isn't it the first time a politician um goes to a Bitcoin conference or not the politician but the first time there's a presidential candidate for like even more that a presidential candidate likely win if nothing major happens that will never happened before, yeah, like RFK was last year also at the Bitcoin conference, uh, he's not a presidential candidate, but that's that's a major thing. It it is, it is, and um, I mean imagine him winning the you

know the presidency in November if I'm not wrong. The um, their election, and it'll be interesting to see what happens after that. Um, and then you have to think that's a bit, that's a president of the United States that said Bitcoin to the Moon, which is one quote of him. He said never sell your Bitcoin, that's it. Those are some, I feel like, uh, we can focus on like, oh, he's said crypto a lot of times, we can focus on what he not said, uh, but I think like it's a massively bullish sign that Trump even went there, that he even said those things in the beginning and that, that just a president is there at a Bitcoin conference. Yeah, yeah, I mean look, um, and I mean we're talking about, you know, the president, ex-president or the presidential candidate of the United States of America, you can't get bigger than that, really, you know, so um, he's there, um, so it makes me feel bullish about everything, really, as I said, you know, um, imagining him winning, you know, winning, um, winning the

election, and after that, yeah, I think we are going to the Moon. Definitely, we are going to the Moon. And he mentioned the um, the um, American government having like 210,000 Bitcoins. And then um, I saw another politician lady. I can't remember the her, I can't remember the name of her, but she said something like, I don't know, uh, America will buy like, what, half a million Bitcoins or something like that. Remember, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, things are happening. I think, you know, things are happening. But wouldn't you like to see something similar over here in Europe? That, that's, that was my next question for you, actually, because, uh, I am as a European, I had the European election, uh, and I searched for all austan parties. I searched all programs. I searched there for words like Bitcoin, crypto, and digital currencies, everything like that. Yeah, there was no word. There was a word of the digital Euro, yeah, but nothing of Bitcoin, nothing of not even cryptocurrencies was in there. Yeah, I mean, it is the same in the UK. It is the

same in the UK. You know, we had our general election just a few weeks, about four weeks ago if I'm not wrong, but nothing about Bitcoin. I mean, they have everything, all types of restrictions, you know, against Bitcoin or crypto, you know, however you want to name it. But when it comes to talking about Bitcoin, they won't do it. Um, and I know soon enough they're going to bring out the CBDCs as well in the UK. That's going to happen. That's definitely going to happen. And also in like in Europe as well, European Union, you know, they're just working so hard to bring out the CBDCs in Europe. And um, we don't like it, but it is what it is. So what can you do? Just stack more Bitcoin. That's what I do. Yeah. And I think it's not bad for like Bitcoin or anything. It's just bad for the region because people like me right now, I'm thinking of like, does is it worth it to leave the European Union? Is it worth

to for getting somewhere else and maybe get some nade status. Get somewhere else citizenship and then travel around the world and leave the European Union. Uh, I mean you're not no longer in the European Union because UK left it. Um, like I think we discussed it last time was in the podcast, but did it got better or worse? Uh, and how is the UK? Is there any mention of Bitcoin? No, not at all. I think it got worse. I think it got worse. In fact, you know, I feel like it's getting worse, you know, by the day. Not in just, you know, not in the UK only, but generally speaking in Europe, right? In the UK, we got a new government now, um, a labor government, um, and, um, so K St is the new prime minister. He's been in power for the last, what, four year, sorry, four weeks, but I have to tell you, I haven't, I haven't heard one single positive thing that considers the UK citizens. Nothing, nothing. In fact, uh, it was like within the first week he pledged, um, 3

billion to the um to Ukraine every year for as long as the war continues. Instead of saying, Oh, you know what, we're going to do anything we can to, you know, find the solution, find, you know, peace, um, but no, they're just supporting, uh, the war. And I think the UK isn't the only country, you know, that does this. So, um, yeah, I think things are getting worse, uh, but again, just like you, I've got quite a few friends around me from Europe. They are considering, you know, moving somewhere else. But, um, the kind of friends I'm talking about, they're either on their own or just, you know, with a girlfriend. See, for example, if I talk about myself, no, I've got responsibilities. I've got a child. I've got, you know, I've everything I've got is here. So, it's a bit difficult. And also, um, age-wise, I'm two years, you know, just two years away from 50. I am. So, I'm 48. Yeah, last week, it was my birthday. Oh, you're almost double me. Yeah, yeah. So, um, I

really don't want to move around unless I have to. Um, but yeah, I mean, just like, you know, I've got a lot of people around me thinking about me, you know, leaving the European Union. It's not an easy decision to make for anyone, really. Yeah, I think like it's, uh, it's a decision that you can either take now or maybe later, or maybe it gets better, uh, but if, if, if things are progressing, like at some point you have to make the decision if you leave a shining SE, if, if you, if you really see it like that. But it could get better, like politicians always can get re, uh, some other politicians can get in, and, and like, even in Europe, you can see, like, uh, the parties that are critical of the European Union, they got stronger in the last election. So, this is a massive sign, a democratic sign, uh, that there's things happening. Um, change might happen, and, and, and I hope it happens, you know, for better, obviously. You know, the way things are going at the moment, I don't like it.

don't think anyone does, but um, while we were talking, I just remembered, I've got, um, again, this is a bitcoiner. Um, I don't want to name the guy now, but he actually told me a few weeks back that he wanted to buy an open ticket. I didn't know what an open ticket was. It apparently, it's just, you know, a plane ticket, but there's no date on it, so you can use it anytime you want. So if it's a normal ticket, say like it's €500, you pay, 1500 for this, but an open ticket, open destination. He said to me, you know, if anything happens, if I feel it, that's, I'm just getting on a plane and I'm going wherever I want to go. So I mean, there are people out there making plans, and I don't want to scare anyone, but yeah, I think people, people, people are feeling, you know, you know, things aren't right. So, um, yeah, people are getting prepared, I think, for something interesting. Three questions that I want to give you each.

one of it individual right now to this topic. Okay, the first question is for you: What does freedom mean to you? Okay, okay, okay. Um, freedom. Um, that is a very deceptively, you know, simple question. What does freedom mean to me? Freedom is. I am one of those guys who believes, um, absolute freedom doesn't exist, you know, but freedom in general, yeah. Freedom, me being able to do, um, whatever I want to do within reason. That is, um, without having to, um, you know, get any permit, you know, that that's freedom, you know, in, in the simplistic, you know, terms, really. Um, but do we have that freedom in the UK or in the European Union? No. And I, I feel like, you know, every, every month, if not every week, I hear about something, something new, some new restrictions, you know, been imposed on us. So, um, yeah, freedom means a lot, but do we have it? I don't think so. Yeah. Do you consider yourself free? No. To a certain degree, yes, maybe seemingly compared to some other countries, yes, but within the society that we're living, um.

not really, no. But also not individually, no. No, because if I have to um live in IND UK, trust me, before you do anything, you have to get a permit. It's a simplistic things um you want to put a satellite dish outside your house, a satellite dish, you know, to you know um yeah, you have to get a permit from the local Council, yeah, it is like that, it is like that um as I said, you know, it's it's a deceptively simple question, but if you dive into it, no, it's not. There is no, you know, simple answer for it, yeah. I was going with those questions, uh, because I really want to dive into how we can expand our freedom, uh, and what we can do, and uh, I feel like Bitcoin is the major first step, no matter what you want to do. If you want to really have the most freedom possible for you, fre Bitcoin is the the the the fundamental to it because it's money, right? It's it's like the fundamental thing. Is there anything else that you're like this is

the thing that I do to protect my freedom the freedom that I have yeah right. First of all you know like everybody everybody else like you myself you know I I I regularly stack Bitcoin but um as I said to you before we started this podcast um I'm stacking Bitcoin um not for my own freedom but hopefully for my daughter's freedom in the future because I you know things are going to get a lot worse in the future you know um. I always tell my friends even in this you know um a broken Fiat world if I am kind of all right on my own I'm all right but thinking about my daughter's future I don't feel all right so um I stack regularly if I get to benefit from that I'm lucky but other other than that yeah I'm I'm I'm definitely stacking for my daughter's future and her Freedom yeah um. In terms of what we can do there are plans uh future plans um of bitcoiners and and I'm always you know talking to these bitcoiners these

bitcoiners literally you know want to get together and start their own little towns and you know um organizations and all that. And um it's really intriguing, really. I, I listen to these people, I, I speak to those people and um generally speaking, they are not Europeans, they're more Americans, you know, freedom and all that, um but no, uh who knows, who knows, you know, where you will be, you know, a year from now, 2 years from now, um despite, you know, everything I just said, you know. I said I'm like 2 years away from 50 and everything, who knows, maybe 5 years from now, I'm going to be in one of those, um Bitcoin towns, you know. I know, yeah, might be, might be cool. Also, maybe considering, uh, kids and maybe considering family, like, uh, maybe it's better for them there in those Bitcoins, definitely, definitely, um in terms of Education as well. I mean my daughter is, um, almost 14, she goes to, um, school, um, but I'm always, um, suspicious, not, not just my daughter, but you know, suspicious.

about what the kids are learning at school. Yeah, do you review what she's learning in school? Oh yeah, I mean it's just standard things, you know. They teach, you know, geography, math. I don't know, whatever, you know, all that. Fine, fine. But um, kids, um, including my daughter, you know, she comes back with like extra stuff from school. But it's not just the school either. It's, it's, it's the social media, you know, from TikTok to Facebook, whatever, you know, they use. Really, kids, um, uh, propaganda is all out there from the schools through social media, TV. Um, yeah, propaganda is everywhere. And if we can, and if we can separate ourselves from that and, and hope, you know, Bitcoin is, are like that. Bitcoin is, um, are aware of things as well. And if we can educate our own kids in our values, oh, that would be perfect. Yeah, I would live in a place like that. What is the fundamental thing that we need? I feel like critical thinking is something that is so important, definitely. Yes, just two questions and a lot of people out there.

they are, you know, incapable of asking those questions. How and why. Just two questions. How, you know, you see something. Okay, how does this happen and why does this happen. Critical thinking is just so important now. Was I always like this? No, I wasn't. I was one of, you know, one of those sheep, you know, um, just a few years ago. But Bitcoin completely changed me and the way I see things, the way I view things, you know. Um, it happens to everyone, I'm sure. I'm sure it happened to you. It happened to, you know, everyone I know. So I, I feel so, so safe in this community, um, you know. When we talk about bit, in fact, Bitcoin, we talk about Bitcoin, but the majority of the subjects, you know, when you, you know, we get together, we talk about history, we talk about economics, we talk about the history of Economics, right? We, we talk about, you know, diets, eating meats, you know, and freedom and all that kind of stuff, um, so it's not just Bitcoin. And I'll tell you over the last, what, three

years, I learned a lot much more than I ever knew. Um, yeah, I always say that. Um, I was, uh, thinking about if I have a stock podcast, think about me being in a stock podcast, talking about which, uh, stocks to buy, what to do, what to look out for. Would also be an interesting topic, but I would never talk about parenting. And I had, but, and I have an episode with Lisa Huff on my show, and she's like the, the, the, the mother of Ella. Yeah, and we talked only about parenting. Yeah, the whole episode was about parenting. It was the second round with her, and I was like, let's pick a topic that you're also passionate about that maybe also in Bitcoin, but it's something a little bit outside, and we talked about everything except Bitcoin. Yeah, and the people loved it. This was another, that's fine, and that's fine. This is what I'm saying, you know, Bitcoiners don't just talk about Bitcoin because there are like, there only like so many things that you can say about Bitcoin, and we say that all the, you know.

we say all those things all the time, and that's it. We know all that, but there are so many other things that Bitcoin is value, as you say, like parenting, family, um, I don't know, you know, Freedom, um, history, you know, all that diet, exactly diet, um, yes. So I, as I said, you know, I value, you know, these people and the information that the things I learned from them, so I appreciate, you know, all my friends, you know, um, over here in Europe, over there in, you know, America, in Canada. I know there's so many people, and hopefully at some point, you know, I'll get to meet them as well, um, and this is, this is really good as well, you know, 'cause you start talking to people, you know, on Twitter, in space, and everything, and finally we get together, um, that Bond, you know, yeah, is there, you can feel it. So I enjoy every minute of it, yeah. I also feel like we should, as we should meet as much as possible, we should, as bitcoiners, those connections you make offline, yes, with other bitcoiners, with like-minded

people, it's really great, and there are so many possibilities. In almost every city, there's a Meetup. Yeah, you can always download orange pill app. Yeah, you can go to bitcoin conferences, which are really big, like the Bitcoin BR, Bitcoin Nashville, the madira one. They're like just open up Google and say like Bitcoin conferences. There are so many, so many now. So there is no excuse to not meet other bitcoiners offline. And the feedback I always get is it's so easy to make like man friends. Everyone is so open there. Exactly, I mean look, um, in fact, I tweeted about it just two days ago. I think two, three days ago. Look, I mean I got to meet so many different people. Never mind Bitcoin is people and we all have like different characteristics, different interests. We're all different but we all unite in this one subject Bitcoin and um and you know the Bitcoin brings us together and then you get to know people. Yeah, we have different interests and everything but then again oh you know what we agree on History we agree on you.

know economics. We agree on not just one subject, that is Bitcoin, but also, you know, other stuff as well. But um, I don't know, I'm an Arsenal supporter. You might be a Manchester United supporter, and that's fine. But um, yeah, no, generally speaking, Bitcoin is, once they meet, yeah, they get on well. They really get on well. Yeah, I love AA, but but I'm not a huge football fan. So, so it's easy to say for me, um, really, really cool. Before I go to the next topic, I want to last on the community. You are one of the vocal voices that wants to bring up more European, uh, Bitcoiners on thisly. I feel like that's one of the things that you try to do with C and stuff like that. Yes, yes, yes. Um, look, as English speakers, you know, um, we are always exposed to, we're always in American Bitcoin spaces, and you know, I've said this many times before, so I'll say it one more time. Um, love my American friends. I love my Canadian friends, right, fine, but and and when we're talking.

about Bitcoin again. That's fine, but quite often, they talk about the issues in America, the events, the dates, the names, you know, quite often I get lost because I don't know what they're talking about. And this was early part of last year. I thought, you know what, I think we need a European space for European bitcoiners. You know, we'll talk about Bitcoin, but other than Bitcoin, we can talk about the local issues in Europe as well because, you know, we know what's going on in Europe. Um, so I tried a space called Cafe Europe, which hasn't been on for the last six weeks or so, but when I go back, it'll start again. Um, but I find that European bitcoiners are so elusive. Um, they will just pop in the space, they won't even talk. 10 minutes later, they will leave. And now my American friends come and support me, so it's like, you know, it says Cafe Europe, fine, but full of Americans. Um, I'd like to say, you know, I love all my American

friends, so I'm not having a go here, but yeah, Bitcoin is from Europe. I don't know, they don't really like spaces, I guess. I think it's also, I mean, I don't know for other countries, but for German-speaking countries, they like to stay with German-speaking spaces. German-speaking, like, feel they have a really bad English, and they don't want to get on the English. I think that's the language barrier is real. I feel like, but Robin, I've been on the road for three weeks now, you know, I'm touring Europe. Um, so France, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, um, Czech Republic. Now I'm here. Um, hopefully, if I've got some time, maybe I'll go to Netherlands and then back to UK. One thing though, wherever I go, people speak English. Yeah, people speak English. So I don't know why they would feel like that, but I would love to see more Europeans. I would love to, um, you know, meet more Europeans in this space or in, in, in, you know, real life, you know, during.

conferences and all that. I'd love to do that. I'd love to do that if it wasn't for like, um, Twitter. I think, yeah, we met on Twitter first and then, Prag, you were there, you know, with me a few weeks back. Yeah, um, no, let's use the technology to get together, you know, to exchange ideas, to discuss, um, whatever problems we have here in Europe. Yeah, let's do that. If you watch or listen to my podcast on a regular basis, I guess you already bought some Bitcoin, and now the most important step is to keep the Bitcoin, keep them secure in a hardware wallet. My personal recommendation for a Hardware wallet is the BitBox. It's super secure, it's simple to set up, it's also a perfect gift for a friend who has still their Bitcoin on an exchange, and you can get a 5% discount with the code Robin at the checkout. Visit bitbox do Swiss robobin to get your BitBox. And if you really want to bulletproof your self-custody setup, your security setup, and maybe even your

citizenship set up. You have to talk to the Bitcoin way. If you go to the Bitcoin way.com Partners SL, Robobin, you get a 30-minute free call where you can dive deep with them. If your self-custody setup is secure, if your citizenship is secure, or maybe might be improvable, or your digital footprint in general is secure. They are the experts in cybersecurity, in Bitcoin self-custody, and how to be a secure sovereign individual in general. And for those of you who are in search of a new Bitcoin exchange where they can buy their Bitcoin from, I recommend my personal Bitcoin exchange, 21 on Bitcoin. With code Robin, you get a hefty discount for all your purchases in the future. The thing that I meant this, um, for example, we have Roman Rea. He's the biggest, the block trainer. He's the biggest in, in, in Germany. Like, he's, you like, if someone says, like, I want to learn about Bitcoin in a, in a German-speaking area, he's the guy. He has a News website with great articles. He has a team behind him.

they are researching. They're all like Bitcoin, only they're focused on that. This is high signal. I even have him. I just right when I was waiting for you, I got the email that he will come on my podcast because I want to get those voices that are usually only in German-speaking areas also on an English-speaking space. Yeah, it's not his first English um podcast, but he doesn't. He didn't do a lot of English podcast. I think there are like five or something like that that I could find. Maybe there more um and because they are in the German speaker. I don't know if Spanish and all of other things, but in German, there are a lot of Supply on German content for Bitcoin like there is a lot of podcasts. There are a lot of uh uh live streamers that almost do daily live stream. Yeah, so you can really be just in a German-speaking area just in a German-speaking Bitcoin Community. You don't even have to get out of uh the of your way because if you have the um as a

German speaking guy, you have the possibility to speak in a German Twitter space or English Twitter space. You're like, Ah, I just go on the English twit. German Twitter space. I was. I'm one of the examples that likes English more than German. Uh, there a lot of reason. I got in those reason a lot in the podcast, so I will not not not explain them too much, but I think that's a that's a huge thing that Europe has so many different languages languages, and America has English. I mean, America has no official language as I learned from an American friend of me. Yeah, uh, but they all speak English. Yeah, yeah, they do. They do, um, now another example is um, you know, I'm a native Turkish speaker, right? Um, I haven't come across any Turkish, you know, Bitcoin spaces either. Oh, and yet there's a um, you know, great strong hardcore Bitcoin Community there. They've got a telegram group. I know they they talk and quite often the language they choose to speak in is English, um, but I've never seen any Turkish.

Bitcoin space now every now and then I go into um Turkish spaces, and people see my laser eyes, you know, so they ask me questions, um, and I try to answer their questions, you know, as much as possible, but the interest I get from normal people, that actually that makes me feel good. So even normal people are asking questions, at least, you know, what is this, what's going on, how, you know, how do we, how do I do it, how, you know, so how, how does that work. So yeah, yeah, there, there is definitely interest, and you know, it makes me happy, yeah, especially in Turkey with such a high, I mean, we have high inflation all around the world, but in Turkey especially. Oh yeah, I mean, that's another, I think last time we talked about it, now up until last month, the inflation was, this is quite funny, now you're going to laugh at it, last month it was like just over 70%, this month they declared that inflation is down to 26%, exactly, exactly. But, you know, I'm always in touch with my Turkish friends.

my cousin in Turkey. Even this morning, I had a little chat with someone in Turkey. Nobody is feeling it. It's 26%. I don't know, they must have said, Oh, you know what, let's just say it's 26%. That's it. It's just a figure on a piece of paper. It just doesn't exist. Yeah, I feel like sometimes they might try with those low numbers to bring inflation down because I feel like if everyone, if you can actually agree, the national narrative that everything is 26%, people feel like that and then they are a little bit more. It's a psychological, it's a psychology game because if inflation is known, is like 200%, then as a restaurant, you're way more likely, Oh, I can also increase my prices. I feel like there's a real impact you can have with out official numbers that are lower, but in the end of the day, you cannot fake it like there, you can't. The inflation will come no matter what.

numbers you would right. Oh yeah, I mean things are so bad that I don't know. Say like you're a Turkish citizen. You go and do your shopping and today you pay. I don't know. Say like. I don't know. 1,500 Turkish. Your shopping next week you go back. You will almost. 100. Well say 99% certain that you will pay 1,600. You know from week to week in from day-to-day prices change. Um, it is bad and also. Um, in the last few days. Um, there's like some other stuff going on in Turkey. I don't know. There's a problem with like stray dogs and all that. So the government passed a new law to. Um, take things under control. But then again in two about three days ago the president. Erdogan said something like. Oh, you know if Israel doesn't stop we will invade Israel and all that kind of stuff. But I'm thinking hang on a minute hang on hang on a minute something else is going on here. I think they are trying to. I don't know take

people's attentions away from the real issue, which is the economy. So while people's minds are busy with all this new stuff, I reckon in the next, other don't know, few weeks, um Turkish Lira might lose more value against the American dollar. So I think at the moment $1 is like 33 Turkish Lira or something. I don't know, in the next few weeks, if it goes up to like 35, 36, I won't be surprised. Yeah, yeah, that's super interesting. What's going on? Um, let's talk a little bit more about Bitcoin. We have like four years ago, we had no like four and a half years ago, we had no public company in there. We had no country in there. We had no president talking about it. And now, like just four or five years later, everyone is doing it. Yeah, everyone is talking about it. Like um, do you have some framework to think about what Bitcoin might look like in 5, 10, 20 years? Do you have some

predictions. What's going on with Bitcoin in 20 years. Not only price. Okay. In terms of predictions, yeah, in price, I don't want to say anything. I think there's like there are enough people there, you know, that my personal thing in my personal opinion. And if I'm wrong, please someone correct me. I just don't think that full Bitcoin adoption will happen in the next, I don't know, four, five, maybe 10 years. I can't see that happening. Will it happen at some point in the future? Definitely, but not in the next few years. 20 years, 25 years, 30 years, who knows? Because America, okay, the Fiat system as we know it, it is still there. It's a fact, right? So which one is the, you know, world currency? That is the American dollar. So but before the American dollar collapses, there are like another like 180, 90 currencies that has to collapse first, then the American dollar. And that will take time. I mean, what are we going to do?

know with Euro Euro has to collapse as well. You know, so I think that will take a bit of time because I know these people are not going to go down without fighting. But Bitcoin, as I always say, Bitcoin is inevitable. It will happen. Yeah, my theory is that in 2044 or around 20 years from now, 20 years from now, yeah, that it will be so extremely obvious that Bitcoin is the best savings technology ever. And not only to our small Bitcoin community, it will be like mainstream like, Oh yeah, you have money, like save it in Bitcoin, it's safe there. I think in 20 years, we will succeed with that. I think medium of exchange will be coming to develop. It will be already like you can spend your Bitcoin on a lot of places. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, and I think in like when you look at like phone, like let's say like iPhone, like how long are they here, like 15 years, and we have now, look 20 years back, nobody was running around with his phone like that.

like that now nobody can get away. We have to invent like lock boxes for people that lock their own phones in a box because they're so addicted to their own phones. That's right, that's right. And I think people will be in a positive way addicted to bitcoin. Um, you're right, yeah. I can see that happening. What I'd like to see that bitcoin, the technology, if it can be somehow simplified more user-friendly for normal, for like normal people. Um, I think the adoption process, you know, will be even faster because a lot of people, even now today, you know, a lot of bitcoin conversations, especially the technical side, right, can be so confusing. Yeah, you know, if you can be simplified for people. I and I don't know, I don't even know what I'm trying to say here, right, but I'm just saying just simplify it. Say like the, um, you know, self-custody, for example, um, self-custody. Now I find it easy and simple, but try to explain it to normal me. Yeah, and it it's a

journey because first you're like oh nice I got Bitcoin and then everyone on Twitter says like oh you have to take it off exchange and I'm like what like I cannot just leave it on Exchange like my my uh stocks I have yeah or like a bank account yeah and and then you take uh your first hardare wallet for example bitbox is one of my sponsors uh you you you get your first your bitbox like your Hardware wallet and you're like you put it there and like oh but what happens when I lose my bitbox then you get in like oh backup seat phrases then you're like oh but it's just a piece of paper you can burn then you get in like Steel W Ste then then you're like oh but when someone comes to my home he can just take it right oh but five key free keys like m signatur and then you're like oh collaborative cies like it's a rabbit hole in itself I know I know and I see see all that I think um now I'm in it now I'm

interested in and there is so much for me to learn. Never mind a beginner. I don't know if things could be somehow simplified. As I said, I don't even know what I'm trying to say here. I'm just saying. I'm just using the word like simplify just to um get more people on board bit easier. Um, that would be great. But then again, if this is what it is, that's fine. You know, people have to. People, people have to just. People have to just, you know, run down the rabbit hole and learn. That's it. I like to look at 10 years in the history of Bitcoin and how hard it was to even get Bitcoin in the early days and how easy it's now become in most countries. And then extrapolate that exponential because as the price grows, the value uh, net purchasing power of Bitcoin as grow, the more people will come in and the more incentives there are for companies to build better stuff like just, just look.

at the Bitcoin conference the last 10 years, the first one with like 100 people in the conference room, half empty, and Andreas Antonopoulos is speaking and nobody's listening. 10 years later, you have a conference with 20,000 people where they are lining up a whole day to get in to see the next, the 47th president of the United States, speaking about Bitcoin. Like that's a, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. As I said, you know, we'd like to see things like that in Europe and why stop in Europe. You do it, do it in Asia as well, you know. No, Bitcoin is inevitable sooner or later, you know, whether they like it or not. No, they're going to come on board. See, they have to, otherwise they're going to be left behind, you know, like so many people. I feel like, you know, as Bitcoiners, we are where we are now, fine, but 10, 20 years from now, as we said earlier, yes, you know, Bitcoin will be used as

like normal day daily money maybe, but I feel that a lot of people will be left behind. I don't know if you can understand what I'm trying to say because we're just stuck in as much as we can. And it's not just us. Now the banks are buying Bitcoin, now the governments are buying Bitcoin. Okay, so you know what's my part in this. I am trying to speak to as many people as I can and try to orange peel them, trying to explain what this is and how it works compared to the normal money, a normal financial system. But so that's my part. And if I can do it, you know, if I can orange peel even more people, yeah, is that the best thing everyone can do? Orange pill their neighbors, orange pill the people they love. No, not necessarily. I think people have different parts, you know. I know you spoke to a few technical people, developers and all that. They've got their job, you know.

that they do what they do, and you know we're all grateful for what they do, right? Fine. Um, but as a normal player, as a non-technical person, I still feel like I have a part to play in this, you know, Bitcoin community. You know, I'm not just here to stack and talk, whatever. Now, what is my job? Um, I'm a natural mediator, believe you or not. Um, and I've always been like that. I actually bring people together, right? That's what I do. Um, and I do. It's just a natural talent. I don't get paid for it or anything like that. And I can attach to that because you brought a lot of people already on my podcast. But, but that's what I do, you know? Um, you know, I bring friends together, say like in my where I live, you know? If people need another night, a particular trader, and they don't know, so I, I know people. So I, I bring people together. So, um, and in within the Bitcoin community, I'm thinking, you know, I can do the same.

thing you know bring people together and explain Bitcoin bring people on board you know orange P them um that's my natural tal talent and you know I'll just use it I'll just use it why not yeah I I love that a lot yeah uh which brings me to one question that I now ask all my guests uh before the end routine um what can we learn from you besides Bitcoin and besides the things that we talked about from me yes I do that I I I put that question now because I feel like bitcoiners are such unique personalities and when we only talk about Bitcoin and the Bitcoin podcast we never get to know the other sides or we we can learn from each other a little bit better if we purposely expose the things that we know outside of Bitcoin because I got to know about citizenships and everything like that because of bitcoiners I got to know about diet because of bitcoiners so I think there are a lot of other topics that we can learn about and I I'm just curious like

sometimes what can you learn from me. I don't know. I'm a I'm I'm a great traveler traveler. um I love traveling. you know I love driving so there is that but um uh something that I never talk about and this is something different. um something I never talk about in spaces because it never comes up. um my background is actually martial arts. you know I've been I've been in karate. yeah since 1989 since I was 13. um I've got um in European championships. I've got quite a few medals as well. so that's that's my past. you know um you can learn that from me if you want to learn it. um other than that man I I don't know really. you know that that's a very sudden question. now what can I learn from you. I don't know you could. yeah martial arts is a great one it is. um I've always been even as a child I've always been a physical person right. um I can't see myself sitting in

you know sitting at a desk and work, you know, from 8 till 5:00. I can't do that. Even, you know, today, uh, my job is, you know, I work outside, you know, I work physically. I do like Building Maintenance and all that, so I've always been physical, um, but when it comes to martial arts, as a small kid, I was a bit naughty, I think, you know, I used to, I always, I was always in F, if like local kids and that, but yeah, once I started karate, I thought, oh, you know what, you can fight and you can get medals for it, all right, let's go, you know, that's how it started, but later in life, you know, it calmed me, calmed me down a lot, and even today, um, I'm not a competitor, competitor anymore, but I'll tell you, karate effects, um, uh, almost, you know, every aspect, aspect of my life, because there is that, um, resilience, you know, you have to go, you have to go, you have to push, push, push, that's, that's what you do in karate.

know, uh, during training, during, you know, competition. So, even at work, you know, push, push, push while I'm stacking. Push, push, push, you know. So, yeah, I apply, you know, karate, you know, for everything in my life. And now that I'm thinking about is it's if you want to be a sovereign individual to a certain extent, it can be very helpful to be at least capable of dealing with, uh, I mean you don't want to get in fights in real life on street fights because you never as much as, yeah, you never know what the other person has in his pocket, yeah, yeah. But, but it, it could save your life, definitely, definitely. Um, and, and, and, you know, first of all, any kind of support is sports, right? If you got a child sport, I don't know, gymnastics, karate, swimming, I don't know, Judo, whatever Sports. I don't know. They, they teach kids discipline, that's one thing, and secondly, martial arts, you know, I would recommend, not right about Judo to everyone. Um, I love Judo. I

follow Judo. I don't do Judo myself. I appreciate that sport, um, you know, so much. But as you say, if you're in a situation and if you know what to do, how to defend yourself, at least you know you'll have a chance. Um, so in that sense, yeah, it's great. It's great. One last question on that. A lot of people, uh, I see when they talk about, uh, martial arts, they're like, Oh, I don't want to do it. I'll probably hurt myself. It's, it's like in training, uh, is Judo something safe to train, or it is, it is definitely, there's no age for it. It's like karate, Judo, and whatever you want to do. There is no age for it. You can start at the age of what, 7, 17, or 47, 5, 77, whatever. Um, but you have to be aware of the fact that it is a, you know, physical support, you know, sport, you know, during a training. Yes, you will fall or you will

get hit but um these I don't know martial arts clubs they're so professional you know they won't let you um you know harm yourself you know accidents might happen like everything else but other than that they they I can say you know they're completely safe definitely for for me it's always like uh when you talk about safety like you you can avoid martial art and then you go into your I don't know chess games and on the way to the chess game you get hit by the bus like safet is always like a weird topic because even if you go to safest rout you might die yeah or you definitely die but you might actually yeah I mean I'll just say you know just because you know Marshall I don't I wouldn't want anyone to go I know maral and then yeah you get knocked out right there that's embarrassing as well yeah amazing perfect then uh let's get into our end routine our end routine is where the previous guest is asking a question for our next guest without

knowing who the next guest actually is uh and uh the question for for you is uh that's a question that's quite general uh but can go quite deep. What does uh Bitcoin actually mean for you? What does Bitcoin actually mean for me? You know I'm going to give you uh the same answer. I think Bitcoin means obviously freedom to everyone. Bitcoin um is the greatest store of value, greatest you know greatest thing ever, I think. You know uh we have but I'll tell you um I think Bitcoin means to me uh my daughter's freedom. You know as I was saying earlier I stack for I stack for my daughter and if I can benefit from it just a little bit that's fine as well but otherwise that's for my daughter's uh future and um Bitcoin and all the benefits all the freedom that that it's going to bring it's going to provide for my daughter. Yeah that's that's what it means to me you know my daughter is everything the sun literally literally like you know rises and sets with her.

for me so I do. I do everything for her so Bitcoin is for her. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, thank you. Before I let you go, where can people find you? Where can people reach out to you? Where can we? Where can people find you? Ask you questions which all right okay um. I mean I'm always on Twitter. Uh, you know, um, a lot of people know me but yeah, I'm a bear hunter on Twitter. Um, yeah, just DM me. Where does bear hunter actually come from? I'm a bear hunter. You know what? I really. I mean, I don't hunt bear bears or anything. I was thinking about that martial arts also. No, no, no, not at all, not at all. Um, I can't even remember what my first handle was but um, when I, you know, dived into the Bitcoin Community, a lot of people were talking about the bear Market, bear Market, bear Market. I don't know. I got. I just got the idea and and I didn't even know what Market meant or bull market meant. I didn't know but when I found out

what it was okay. Okay, I'm a bear hunter, so that's how it started, but and it got stuck with me. Amazing, perfect. Then yeah, thank you all for being here. No worries, it's a pleasure. And also thank you for everyone watching and listening for joining us today. I'll be back as always tomorrow with another episode. Bye-bye, bye-bye. Was great, brilliant, brilliant. Thank you. [Music]

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