maybe I'll never be able to compete in these same spaces and places again. Maybe I'll be blacklisted. You know, there's so many different things that go through your mind. But what I did have was the experience. What I did have was a loyal fan base. What I did have was that confidence always, that like, I'm going to make this [Music] happen. In 2019, a 26-year-old pop star from suburban Los Angeles had an idea. After notching a top 10 hit early in her career, Tanase Jorgensen-Kingu found her momentum stalled when she was caught in record label purgatory. Striking out on her own as an independent artist, Tanase would release a series of critically acclaimed and beloved albums before releasing her smash single Nasty and returning to the charts for the first time in a [Music] decade. And it all started with one idea. [Music] So thank you for joining us on Generation. Thanks for having me. Of course, I'm curious, your career started

when you were like 5 years old, yeah. And given that, what would you say is the source of your ambition? You know what? I don't know. I feel like it's just a part of me. It's like one of those things that whether or not an audience was watching, I would continue to perform and continue to create. Yeah, it just feels like who I am at a core level. And how did your parents' professional life inform your ambition? Well, it's interesting. My mom's a physical therapist, so she is not an artist at all by any means. My dad's a little bit more creative. He's a theater performer and actor and director. So I feel like that kind of introduced me to the concept of being on stage, and you know, that definitely paved the way. But in terms of music, music's always just been something that I've known I wanted to pursue, and to me, that felt like the most fulfilling route to take. So as soon as I could, I just started jumping into whatever music career I could create. What was the moment that sort of tipped

you into being on camera on stage. Yeah, I mean, I was in my first movie when I was 5 years old. So, it was super, super young. I just remember I loved it. I loved being on set. I loved having my own trailer and my little name on the trailer and getting my outfits and everything. So, as long as I can remember, I've just loved to entertain. I've loved to perform and kind of kept that same energy throughout my youth and then my teenage years. And did you play music growing up as well? Yeah, music was always, you know, like an outlet. I felt a way to get a little bit more personal and to kind of tell my own story. So, I also started writing music really young. I wrote my first song also at like 5 years old. Um, and just continued to try to make it however I could. I didn't have the formal training, like access to a studio or anything like that when I was young, but I tried to be involved in music as much as possible. Dance was a big

thing that was a passion of mine from age four, age five. So, it's really interesting. I feel like I've been pursuing my passions and really living in my passion since I was very young. And, you know, obviously, your parents were extremely supportive, but how did they negotiate that line between supporting you and pushing you in ways that perhaps uncomfortable? I give them a lot of credit for that because I feel like they just kind of followed their instincts and did the best that they could. And seeing it made me happy, seeing that it was something that was fulfilling for me, was I guess all that they needed to see. Because, you know, living in LA and kind of trying to keep up with the grind with three young kids is definitely not something that's super easy by any means. And so, I don't know, they just kind of made it happen, and I really, really appreciate that. My biggest early supporter would have to be my parents. I give them so much credit for how far I've come in the

music industry and in the entertainment industry in general. They really nurtured my love for performance since I was really young and never told me that my dreams were too big, and so I'm very thankful for [Music]. That as a kid, you relocated the family to LA kind of at the behest of your career. Yeah, how aware of their sacrifices were you in that, you know, as a young person? I think I was aware. I was very intuitive, and I could tell that, you know, my family had left all of their family behind, kind of in the Midwest, and really taken a swing at living in this Hollywood dream. And I remember I was the one that continued to kind of book the jobs, and kind of there was this underlying knowledge of like, Okay, I'm kind of financially making sure that my family is able to even stay in this city. Even though that was definitely some pressure to put on like a young kid, I don't feel like I took it in a negative way. I feel like I found a lot of pride.

and I found a lot of sense of self-confidence in knowing that from a young age I was doing it for real. As a teenager, you pivoted from acting to making music. What was sort of the thought process, and also, you know, how did you go about establishing this whole new career? Well, I always knew I wanted to do music, but I didn't really have a way in or I didn't really know how I was going to get into the music industry. I was already acting and doing different things here and there, and I met some kids on set, and one of the girls was like, Oh, I'm going to join a girl group. They're looking for a fifth member. I was only 14 at the time. I remember initially thinking, Like, I don't know if I want to be in a girl group because I want to be a solo artist, but I had no experience, so I was like, Okay, let me do this for a few years and kind of gain that experience. So, when I was 14, I joined a girl group.

and that was our first time like recording in major studios, songwriting like in a way. We went on tour with Justin Bieber, so that just opened the door for me in terms of how I perceived myself as an artist and also my access. So your time with the girl group comes to an end, yeah, and you decide to pursue solo endeavors. But rather than just sort of move along on the conveyor belt of pop stardom, yeah, you take it back to the lab and start making music kind of entirely on your own as a tour. What inspired you to do it exactly that way? Yeah, I mean, I think initially I just didn't have, again, the access to studios, to other people to work with, and I had in my mind this idea that I was just going to do it myself. So I just started. I learned on YouTube. I just downloaded a lot of, or watched a lot of YouTube tutorials about like how to work Logic, how to work Pro Tools, bought cameras that I didn't really know how to

use Googled how to how to work those just started filming my own videos and making my own art and putting it online. And I also think that I didn't have, like, there was no snobbishness in my mind about, like, the quality of the music that I was putting out. I just made it as best as I could and put it online. It served me really well. It was how I kind of got my start, how I got the initial record labels involved and excited about everything that I was doing. And yeah, DIY is super important. I think having that spirit is a big, big, big benefit. The most important idea I've ever had, I think, was to get my own recording equipment and start recording my own music in my room. I think that was the first steps to me making my own music as an artist and taking control of my narrative. And I've definitely kept that same energy of doing it myself in my home till this day. I saw that you recorded the first two mixtapes in very in quick succession.

and also very in very short window. Yeah, I wrote like the first album in like 11 days or something crazy like that, so it was different. And how were you connecting with producers and collaborators via Twitter and so reaching out to producers there and then also trying to make my own beats, um, again just having that real DIY spirit, but collaborating with people that I met. Those first two mixtapes, you as you said, you did them in some number of weeks, mhm. Then you get your studio debut Aquarius on RCA, and that takes 2 years to put together. Yeah, what was that process like and you know sort of philosophically how did you approach it differently from the music that you've been making? Well, it was so different um working with anyone else. You know, I had the advantage of being able to just make whatever I wanted and put it out after 12 days. That's not something that you get with the record label. You have to sit in months of studio sessions, so I definitely had to adjust to the pace, but

I was really thankful for that first couple of years of experience as well because I just never collaborated with producers of that caliber. I was in there with, you know, Diplo and Timland and like Max Martin, you know. I was able to access so many spaces and places and people that I never would have before. And I think the biggest lesson that I learned from that was how important it was to continue to have a perspective because being so young and being the only woman most of the time in 99% of these studio sessions, sometimes you feel like your ideas become smaller or you have to make your ideas smaller. You have to kind of negotiate a little bit more than you're comfortable with, you know. People have a very strong perspective going in like, This is what you should sound like, this is the records you should make, and you're kind of wanting to be a good collaborator and you're like, Okay. So, that was definitely something I had to practice and learn after signing into the major label system. Tase almost immediately scored a

hit with two on, but disagreements with the label over the direction of her follow-up projects would prove too difficult to overcome, ultimately necessitating a fresh start. When you put out that first record, you lead with two on, and it is an instant smash, one of your most successful still. Um, things felt like they were fairly, it was all came out boom, like people are loving it. Yeah, what was the first moment where you had pains of insecurity or thoughts of like, just doesn't things feel like they're going off the rails a little bit? You know what? I think that wasn't until we put out maybe like the third single from the album or the fourth single, 'cause then you start to realize, okay, this isn't going to be so easy every time, like not all these songs are giving two on. And um, yeah, so I think that that's something that is more difficult to learn because when you put out your first song and it does really well, you're already like, okay, this is going to happen every time, this has already set

this bar, and then when it doesn't meet that bar, that definitely is where that insecurity sinks in, and you're like, Okay, well, what am I doing wrong? And you know, that continues to build and build and build over the next few years. And how did you manage that as a creative, you know, especially given the starts and stops that the next record would have, you know, finding that confidence and the condition to keep going? Yeah, it wasn't easy. I think initially, the doubt was what it was, and I was able to kind of push it aside because, again, I would just focus on making music that I really loved. And I made my album Night Ride in the interim, and I was still making stuff that I thought was dope. But when I really started feeling like a problem again is when we couldn't reach the conclusion that this album was done. I thought my Joy Ride album was done a lot sooner than my record label thought it was. That was supposed to be the second album, correct? And then so you had a

finished or mostly finished version. Yeah, they were like, Go back to the drawing board. Do it again. Got to be pretty undermining. And it was a four-year gap between my first album and that album. And four years now is like quick, but when you're 22, four years is a long time. Yeah, so that I think was probably the most difficult time for me in terms of like my self-confidence and the lack of direction. I still believe that everyone at that label had the best intentions. I believe I had the best intentions. I believe everyone had the best intentions. I do think that there was some bad business made and bad decisions that were made, but I don't think that was intentionally to sabotage me. Until I started making some of my own music, that there were some moments where I felt like, you know, that music wasn't supported. But I really feel like it was just a learning process both for myself and for them as well in terms of how to navigate like where to allow me.

to step up and to be the boss and to make the calls. And yeah, I just really feel like the audience, the fans, the world can tell the difference, and they know when it's coming from me. And you know, they can just tell. I think what I've learned from my biggest mistake is to always stay present and to never allow myself to let the lows get too low. I think, you know, it's easy to get overwhelmed and to kind of wallow in how the universe is kind of piling up on you. And it always feels like that in that moment, but it's important to know that nothing lasts forever and that there will always be an [Music] upswing. In retrospect, how do you feel about those last two records and just sort of overall qualitatively? Are you happy with them? Are you of them? Yeah, I think they tell the story. Like, they really tell the story of where I was at the time. I feel like Joy Ride feels like maybe my most discombobulated album, and that is very representative as

well, because I feel like half of the songs were ones that I loved and stood behind, and then half of them felt like they were kind of coming from the opposite end of the spectrum. And I love Night Ride. I think Night Ride is one of my best projects, but that also was like fully me, fully in my house. And it's kind of cool how that stands also as a test of time, a testament to my creativity at the time, and shows that I was still really in my bag. So, um, I, yeah, I appreciate both of those albums for what they represent. What was kind of the final moment where you, for the first time, had a thought, I need to go independent. I need myself. You know what? I think it was after Joy Ride came out. I just knew I couldn't dive into a whole another album process again, and that was when I decided, Okay, we need to have these conversations, tough conversations. And it was meetings with people internally just being like, Look, listen, this relationship is not necessarily beneficial for me. Like, if you can please

allow me to go. You know, it wasn't something that was also a no-brainer for them because, you know, I spent millions of dollars of their budgets. So, it was actually a very kind thing for them to do to allow me out of my contracts and allow me to create my own path. After that, there was also an interesting turning point in my life because I was 25, and I was also moving out of my parents' house right then at that time of my life. And I was just kind of coming into my own, and really at the same time that I was making these changes career-wise, I was making life changes. And I was re-inspired by the fact that I had a new home with more space to get back into that home studio vibe. That was a turning point for sure. I think the key to a successful collaboration is having an open mind. I think when you're working with another artist or another creative, hearing their side or their perspective is kind of what makes that magic. That's what the

point of collaboration is to hear someone else's perspective and ideas, and so I think keeping an open mind and working within that, but also knowing what you want to do and what you don't want to do, and knowing your boundaries in terms of how much you do compromise as [Music]. Well, around that time, you also switched up your entire team from management, business managers, even glam and styling, and everything. MH, that sounds like a series of challenging conversations to have with people that you probably care about. Yeah, how would you advise someone that has to have those types of conversations? Yeah, it's hard, honestly. I think being transparent is key. It's honestly not something that I'm even still really good at, like confrontation or tough conversations. It's something that I would always avoid, but I think the sooner that you could be upfront with people you're working with about what's working for you and what's not working for you, that it won't be such a surprise, and it just felt right to kind of clean house and kind of build.

from the ground up. Did you have any lingering anxiety about whether or not this would work? I think, of course, I think there's always a risk, especially when you're leaving the machine, that you know maybe I'll never have that chance again. Um, maybe I'll never be able to compete in these same spaces and places again. Maybe I'll be blacklisted. You know, there's so many different things that go through your mind. But when what I did have was the experience, what I did have was a loyal fan base, what I did have was that confidence always that like I'm going to make this happen. Now I have to make this happen. So I think, you know, used it as motivation, but I definitely don't think it was easy. It was super empowering, though, as hard as it was knowing that no matter what, I couldn't blame anyone else. You know, like anything that would go wrong now is totally my responsibility. Any decision that I made was totally my responsibility. It felt freeing in a way. There's no one else to

blame released from her deal. Tanase was free to put out music on her own terms. The result was a series of projects that wowed critics and delighted her devoted fan base, culminating in the biggest record of her career. [Music] When you start the First Independent Record, yeah, what were the benchmarks and the goals that you had set for yourself? I think the biggest thing that I wanted to accomplish with going independent was, A, to just make whatever I wanted to make and really gain back that sense of self-confidence, and two, to show the world and the public that I was still here, that I was still in the game, that me leaving was not the end of my story, and I think that that was just a huge chapter, you know, new chapter for me. Each one of your records has a very distinct identity, distinct aesthetic, and sound. When you start on a project, what is the process by which it comes into focus and you sort of hone in on that? Yeah, um, when I'm starting a project, it really starts with kind of like just throwing paint at a

well, I just kind of get in the studio and make whatever is inspiring to me on any given day. And once I've kind of just dabbled in whatever and tried whatever crazy ideas I have, a lot of times I'll have maybe a record or two that are kind of in a direction that I'm leaning towards or some that stand out to me sonically. And then I'll kind of go back in and hone in on that particular sound and try to make more records that feel like that. But I think it's important at the beginning of an album process to just be in an exploratory phase and just kind of do whatever feels right. I think sometimes it's hard to tell a good idea from a bad idea, but I also think that you never know until you try it out. I think to judge your ideas before you've really given them a go is not the way to move. I think sometimes you just have to take all of your ideas, good or bad, and just act on [Music] them. You started making music during the

blog era um and in an era where radio, particularly for the genres you sort of participate in, was instrumental. The entire world has changed. Yes, how have those changes reframed how you think about songwriting? Yeah, I think it's important to be adaptable. I think it's important to just kind of ride the waves of how the industry is going to take you, especially if you want a career long term. So, as much as it's changed, I've been adapting with it. I think my projects now are a little bit more frequent and a little shorter. I think that there's something to be said about giving people something they can consume. I think when you make a really long album, sometimes based on the fact that people are consuming and moving on to the next project so quickly, it kind of feels like a shame when you put all this hard work on all these songs, and you're like, Well, people aren't paying attention to their other 10. So, I decided, especially with this current project, to release it in three parts, and

to really chunk it out so that I could be consistent over the next couple of years and releases, continue to have music videos, continue to have fresh live shows, and also, you know, just give every single song their chance to shine. Nasty is a smash. It's doing great. Congratulations on that. How gratifying was that, particularly, you know, you go independent, and obviously, this is a huge gamble. Yeah, you maintained solid success, yeah, you know, through subsequent releases, but this record has broken through in a way that is sort of transcendent. What was that feeling, and when was the moment that you knew this was starting to happen? You know what? I feel like I noticed really early on that this record was different because I just started seeing conversation from my peers. Like, they would either DM me or they would start to be in my comments just being like, This is dope. This is hot. And that was really gratifying for me just to kind of hear that little co-sign from people. So, I noticed really early on, I was like, Okay, this one's reacting differently. I

still didn't have these crazy expectations for what it would become, but it's been really fun and really exciting to see. Success to me is being able to create the art that I want to make, being able to play shows for my fans, being able to connect with people all around the world. I think I've really found success in my art and being fulfilled creatively, and not necessarily on numbers or charts or any other arbitrary [Music] accolade. As you look at this next chapter of your career, what are the things on the short list that you would like to achieve? Wow, I mean, I've really focused for the past few years on not having these bars of success in terms of specifics. Like, I used to always be like, I want a number one song, I want a Grammy, I want a number one album. Like, I would still really like all those things, but I can't say that with good consciousness because I feel like that's when I got into trouble, is when I made those my priorities, and

so now I would say I want to play bigger shows than I've ever played before. I want to put out more music. I want to buy a house. I want to do all those things. I saw your message to your younger self is be patient. Yeah, tell me about the role of perseverance. I think it's so important to be patient and to know that the universe will work out in the right time. And it may not be the time that you have in your head. It certainly wasn't the timeline that I'd set for myself when I was a teenager. But you know, the universe's timing is the best timing because now I'm so much more prepared and so much more ready and have such a better perspective because of everything I've been through. When I was young, I wanted everything to happen boom boom boom boom bam. That's why I was making projects in a week or you know and putting them online. And so I think it's a practice and and being able to slow down and think about

longevity and think about legacy. How does success feel different at, say, 21 versus 31? I think it just comes from within. It's like a sense of peace and calm from within, and it's not so much predicated on what other people are saying or how other people are perceiving me. I mean, I think it's amazing to have success outwardly, but it really feels like it's just an inner knowing. [Music] Oh [Music]

How Tinashe Escaped Music Industry Purgatory and Crafted the Hit 'Nasty'

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