경험, 정체성, 현실의 교차점

### 현실, 정체성, 진실의 본질 탐구하기
* 🧠 다이애나 풀라 교수는 정체성과 영성의 복잡성에 대해 이야기하며, 많은 사람들이 자신의 경험을 잘못 해석할 수 있기 때문에 **신성에 대한 해석이 오해될 수 있다**고 제안합니다.
* 🌌 그녀는 명상이나 사이키델릭과 같은 수행에서 **커뮤니티의 중요성**을 강조하며, 얻은 통찰력을 무시하지 말고 공유해야 한다고 강조합니다.
* 🔍 풀라는 '플라톤의 동굴'과 '영혼의 어두운 밤'을 언급하며, **현실에 대한 초기 인식이 환상일 수 있음을 깨닫고 진정한 실재를 더 깊이 이해하게 되는 여정**이라고 설명합니다.
* 💭 이 대화는 경험의 본질에 대해 다루며, 경험은 현실의 핵심이며 **이론이 내러티브를 제공할 수는 있지만 개인적인 경험의 즉각성을 가려서는 안 된다**고 주장합니다.
* 🌊 자아는 삶을 탐색하는 데 필요한 도구로 묘사되지만, 정체성의 더 심오한 측면인 **진정한 주체성**과는 구별됩니다.
* ⚖ 이 대화는 진실과 현실의 중요성을 강조하는 가치에 대한 토론으로 마무리되며, 두 참가자는 **진실에 헌신하는 것이 현실에 참여하는 것**과 동의어라는 데 동의합니다.
* 🌱 궁극적으로 이 대화는 경험과 그것이 드러내는 진실을 포용하고, **더 큰 존재의 틀 안에서 개별 정체성의 상호 연결성**을 인식하도록 장려합니다.
* 🎙 이 팟캐스트는 **의식, 자유 의지, 현실의 본질에 대한 통찰**을 약속하며 청취자들을 이러한 심오한 주제에 대해 더 깊이 탐구하도록 초대합니다.

다이애나 풀라는 경험은 단순한 개념적 이해를 넘어 현실의 본질이라고 강조합니다.

when I was speaking to this professor of religion named Diana Pula, she was saying, "Kurt, don't worry that half of the world thinks that I am God and so on because you don't know what they mean by that. I don't have the, like, I have an

idea of what they mean. They could be misinterpreting what they mean. They could be wrong. At the same time, millions and billions of people have been wrong. All of these practices, meditation and psychedelics, they're meant to be done with the community, and all these

insights." She said she would imagine if you went to some leader and you told them this insight, they'd be like, "Oh no, no, no, that's what that, that's completely wrong. Like you're not, you are not God, like you are an aspect of God or

whatever it may be." And then she also said, "The Plato's Cave journey is what's, what's happening, or the dark night of the Soul." She used that phrase. She said, "The actual full story of that, or you think this is reality, the wall you come out, you feel like that's

an illusion. Then the end of the story is to somehow realize that what you thought was real in the beginning is indeed real. It's just real in another manner, like somehow more real." And then I remember something Bernardo that you said, "Look at this, this we think of as solid, we feel

it, there's solidity to it. Yet, we look at it through a microscope and we say, "Yeah, the atoms are far apart. This, this solidity is an illusion." That's if you take materialism as primary. What if you take your conscious experience? No, no, this is solid

This actually is solid. There's something real about that. There's something real about this table. There's something real about me inhabiting this world. I can go through this process where I feel like, oh, that's all an illusion. But then there's this quote about T.S. Eliot that

the point of the journey is to come back where you started and know the place for the first time. I feel like that. I'm slowly starting where I feel the reality of this more. I feel it, but then there's a nagging part of me that's like, yeah,

you're tricking yourself, G. You're tricking yourself. We let our theories hijack the reality of our experiences and that's a tragedy. Experiences are not nothing, they're the only thing that is really real. That's not just abstraction, so it

doesn't matter that you, oh, there are atoms here and then the distance between the electron orbitals and the nucleus is enormous relative to the, to the diameter of the particles themselves. Yeah, it's all true, but you experience this. You hold this. It has weight, it has texture.

It feels moist and it satiates my thirst. This is all real stuff now. A conceptual understanding, a conceptual narrative behind that may be true or not, but it doesn't take away from the experience. Whatever this is, it is an experience and it is real as such. The problem is that

we, we, we are in a society which implicitly tells us experiences in themselves are nothing. It's the thing that lies behind the experience that counts. That, that's absolutely nonsensical. All we have is experience. The narrative behind it can help us

develop a certain understanding but not by robbing us of the immediacy of experience, which ultimately is all we have. We can add understanding to that, but that understanding is a layer on top of the immediacy of experience. And look, the ego exists; it's a tool. Without it, I

wouldn't know which mouth to bring the fork to. So there is something there that we call the ego. Now, is it your subjectivity in and of itself, or not? That's a valid question. I would answer that the ego is not your subjectivity. It's a certain

configuration of experiences or a narrative within your subjectivity. And yes, idealism ultimately is a form of cosmic solipsism, and you can dip your toes in those waters and you recoil from it. I call it the vertigo of eternity.

Um, it's a place that, um, is very hard to visit, very hard to confront, um, which may be a clue to why we are here, you know, in this form. Um, but maturing has always to do with poking you out of your comfort zone and and and and buffeting you a

little, uh, and and you just have to hold the boat together so we can continue to navigate and not sink. But I I don't think there is anything intrinsically bad about the fact that the waters are trying, it's it's trying stuff, uh, and

that's how we progress. And I I'm not a prophet, I'm not going to predict your future. And you come from a different place than than me. Your life has a different context. What holds true for me may not hold true for you, doesn't hold true for you.

but now I'm going to do exactly what I said I wouldn't do, which is make a prediction, sure. So forgive me for that, okay? But there will come a moment when you realize that your problems will dissipate, not because you answered your questions, but because you

no longer feel the need to ask them. Yeah, I'll leave it at that, okay? So Chris, whatever thoughts come to you, and then we can move on to another couple of questions. I'm sorry to go on this aside, you were just communicating with your own highest level of identity, that's so

okay, that's that's basically God, and the reason you are able to communicate with God is that you are an aspect of God, right? God is reality, he's the Ultimate Reality. He almost has to be that way otherwise it makes no sense to go to something to God, okay? You are a part of

God, and you are a stratum of God's identity, simple as that. And you give rise to things, and your experiences, they are identities. Your experiences, experience is not something that can, it is, it's one unitary, you know, coherent thing, and yet it can be teased

apart into this idea of form and substance, okay? It's basically an experience is an interface. It's an interface between you and reality. It's you accepting input from the outside world or internal input from yourself, okay? And transducing it and then turning

that into a thought or into behavior, okay? This is this is what it is, this is what it's doing for you. So your experiences, even your your purely mental experiences are of utmost value to you. They are identities that are that are a part of your identity, and you are a part

of a greater identity okay so you've got this continuum of identities all right and it's it's a nested it's it's kind of a you know it's a it's a Russian doll so it's it's you know Matryoshka you Matryoshka dolls I forget

anyway basically it's one thing nested within another you've got a highest level of identity your identity is nested in it and your experiences are nested in you they're all identities okay putting all of those things together is what it seems to me that

you're doing a very very valuable thing so I'm saying keep up the good work well hey man like any compliment from you is it's an honor so let's just end this with what you all value what do you value most most Chris what do I value most uh

God what's the identity of reality um and of course supporting and and aiding the fulfillment of reality I believe that reality actually has a goal a teleological purpose that it that it is that it is determined by its structure basically it's built into what it is and

that it is my job to fulfill help reality fulfill that that that its goals its teleological impetus which derives from its structure because I'm a part of it and it's my own highest level of identity and it's my job to help it just

as as it helps me okay I'm carried within it I exist within it so I'm going to return the favor and I'm going to try to reinforce it as much as I can that's what's valuable to me and then of course we have all of the things that are

valuable to everybody you know the idea of of love you know I mean I have a wife I have a home I have you know pets I have dogs that uh that love me you know the taste of a good meal you know or a good drink right having fun with your friends

right going out and enjoying nature all of those things are valuable to me but the one the one basic imperative that I feel is to integrate with reality perfectly help reality reinforce itself right because that's all there is there is nothing outside of that you try to

extricate yourself from reality like like the the Buddhists are trying to do and you end up in Nirvana and you're nothing your identity has at that point fused without a the entire universe and you no longer have an individual identity at all your identity is a

self-distributed thing that covers everything and you have lost your identity as you know okay you're here and you feel your individual identity and that's very very important okay your job your job the the job of your identity is not only to enjoy life as

you were put here to do but also to help life and to help reality reinforce itself right that's what I consider B Bernardo uh the answer I will give you is not the answer I would like to give you I would like to tell you I value

love the most relationships the most human decency and justice um n is struggled with this question and he answered power power is what cons he considered the most important the will to power in contrast to Freud's will to pleasure um but the truth is and you

know part of maturing is accepting your own truths and knowing the truths about yourself even when you don't like it the truth is that for me the most important thing is truth and that um I'd probably surrender everything else to stare the truth in the face whatever the

price whatever the cost that for me is is is the highest calling it's how I'm put together it's not how I wish I was put together um to to prioritize truth above all else is not trivial yeah again he was very explicit about that he said why do we

want to know the truth truth what's the point he he thought it was ridiculous it was a knee-jerk reflex that if we thought it through we would abandon it it's not about what is true um and I I've meditated on that for

years I I went to the extreme of visiting the places where he had those thoughts which thank goodness are recorded we know where he was and I probably stood within a meter of where he stood um but at at the end of all that struggle it's it's the truth that shines

through and the truth is my highest commitment is the truth that that's how I am I I yeah I hate it in a sense but that's how I am thank you all so much for coming out this was thank you thank you all this was well enlightening in many ways okay

I would just once again repeat after that after that that inspiring comment by Bernardo that truth and reality are basically two ways of looking at the same thing when you say that's real or something is real you are saying that it is true okay and when you say that

Something is true, you're saying that it's real. So in dedicating yourself to truth, you also dedicate yourself to reality. And both of our combats, both what what what, both of us said combined in this one truth, this one real truth, the same thing. If you enjoyed that

clip, then the full podcast is out right now. You can click around here, enjoy, subscribe to Theories of Everything to get notified of upcoming podcasts as there are new full-length podcasts every week on the topics of mathematics, physics, Consciousness, Free Will, and AI.

This Life Is Fundamentally Important

Curt Jaimungal

종교적 경험과 오해에 대한 토론

종교적 경험을 잘못 해석하는 사람들에 대한 다이애나 풀라의 관점.

명상이나 사이키델릭과 같은 수행에서 커뮤니티의 중요성.

영적 통찰력에 대한 종교 지도자들의 잠재적 반응.

플라톤의 동굴 우화와 영혼의 어두운 밤.

견고함의 환상에 대한 베르나르도의 관점.

새로운 이해를 바탕으로 다시 출발점으로 돌아갑니다.

이론이 경험을 덮어버리는 위험성.

추상적인 개념보다 감각적인 경험의 중요성.

사회는 직접적인 경험을 과소평가하는 경향이 있습니다.

즉각적인 경험 위에 이해라는 레이어를 추가합니다.

우주적 고독주의와 '영원의 현기증'의 한 형태로서의 이상주의.

성숙은 자신의 안전 지대를 벗어나는 것입니다.

문제의 소멸에 대한 화자의 예측.

답을 통해 문제가 사라지는 것이 아니라 질문할 필요가 없어집니다.

인터페이스로서의 정체성, 신, 경험

자신의 가장 높은 수준의 정체성(신)과 소통하기.

하나님의 본질과 그분과의 관계.

자아와 현실 사이의 인터페이스로서의 경험.

더 큰 정체성 안에서 정체성으로서의 경험의 가치.

'마트료시카 인형' 비유로 중첩된 아이덴티티.

Chris가 가장 중요하게 생각하는 가치는 현실의 정체성을 이해하는 것입니다.

현실은 목적론적 목적과 그 목적을 달성하기 위한 역할을 가지고 있습니다.

기타 가치: 사랑, 관계, 삶의 경험.

열반을 추구하는 과정에서 개인의 정체성이 상실될 수 있습니다.

베르나르도의 최고 가치인 진실에 대한 관점.

불쾌하더라도 자신의 진실을 받아들이는 것의 중요성.

진실의 가치에 대한 니체의 관점.

진실에 대한 베르나르도의 확고한 신념.

진실과 현실은 동전의 양면과도 같습니다.

진실과 현실에 대한 공유된 관점을 요약합니다.