조 로건 체험: 침팬지 분노, 사자 사망률, 동물의 지능

### 침팬지의 공격: 동물의 지능과 분노에 대한 조 로건의 토론
* 🐒 침팬지와 달리 사자는 부상 후 수명이 제한적이며, 보통 몇 주 안에 굶어 죽습니다.
* 🦁 로건은 원한이 동물에게 부족할 수 있는 인지 기능 및 자존심과 관련이 있다고 제안합니다.
* 🧠 하지만 침팬지는 공정성에 대한 감각이 강하기 때문에 불공정을 감지하면 폭력적인 반응을 보입니다.
* 😡 한 침팬지가 다른 침팬지에게 생일 케이크를 선물한 후 전 주인을 공격한 사건은 침팬지의 격렬한 질투와 분노를 잘 보여주는 유명한 사례입니다.
* 🍰 침팬지의 공격은 단순히 살인을 시도한 것이 아니라 인간의 기능에 중요한 신체 부위를 손상시키고 해를 입히려는 것으로, 침팬지의 인간 해부학에 대한 이해를 강조하는 것이었습니다.
* 😡 이는 침팬지의 원초적이고 폭력적인 분노를 강조하는 것으로, 질투라는 비슷한 감정을 느끼는 인간들이 일반적으로 감정을 관리하는 방식과는 극명한 대조를 이룹니다.
* 🙁 로건은 침팬지를 반려동물로 키우는 것과 관련된 윤리적 문제와 동물원과 씨월드의 상황을 예로 들어 사육 중인 동물의 심리적 고통에 대해 이야기합니다.
* 🐳 그는 범고래의 복잡한 의사소통과 지역적 억양을 가진 고도의 지능을 지적하며, 좁은 공간에 갇혀 우울증과 신체적 악화를 초래하는 범고래의 모습과 대비를 이룹니다.

침팬지는 공정성에 대한 감각이 침해당하면 격렬한 분노를 표출합니다.

The Jürgen experience: lions have one shot at getting injured. They get injured once in their life, and then it's over.

So how long do you think they last after an injury like that? Dead? Dead within a couple of weeks. They usually starve to death.

You think, how do you not starve to death if you can't eat? You think the lion keeps thinking...

You think they have like memories and they're like, 'That [___] gazelle that [___] got away!'

Nope. I think they hold no grudges. Right? I think grudges are connected to cognitive function,

like our ego, our understanding of ourselves. That's like, 'I'm going to get him back,' because it's like your ego. I don't think

animals have an ego. They have... they have a sense of fair, though. Animals have a sense of... some animals do, at least. Chimps do.

One of the reasons why chimps attack people is because if people give something to someone else and they don't give it to

them, they have a real sense of fairness. Wow, yeah. There's a famous story of this guy who had a pet chimp, and then...

The thing about chimps is you can keep them when they're young, and then they get older and it's like a man,

but a man that's five times stronger than you. And like, why is he gonna listen to you? He's not gonna listen to you. So I think

you start biting off fingers. It's one of the things that chimps do when chimps get mad at you; they bite off your finger.

Yeah, just let you know they're the boss. Like they don't give a [___] if you're

injured. They have no remorse, right? And they're intelligent. So you have this thing that's not a dog,

it's not a person; it's this weird in-between thing. It's an animal, but it's also intelligent. And so...

When you do something for someone else, but you don't do something for them, they get rage, like horrific rage. So this guy gets

rid of this chimp, brings it to a shelter. The shelter takes it in, and he goes to visit it every year, and

the chimp goes to see him like, "Oh, my friend, I miss you. I miss you. Why can't I

come home?" But he can't come home ever because he would just take over the house, right? Because he's a grown

chimp. They don't castrate chimps the way they castrate dogs. Like, when you castrate a dog, like

everybody, it's standard. People think it's good. "Oh, did you get your dog neutered? Yeah, I did."

And you're like, "You want your dog to have no testosterone? You want your dog to have no balls?" But then it becomes a

different thing, right? Then it's like tired and like... like, have you ever seen a dog get snipped? I had one of my dogs get snipped

when it was five years old. It was just too aggressive, and so someone talked me into it. And then when I got him snipped,

also, he was just tired all the time. He was lazy. And I realized, "Oh, he didn't have any

testosterone anymore. It's all gone." Like, wow! Like, so the dog's a different dog now. So you can't do that to chimps, for whatever

reason. You can't neuter a chimp. So this guy goes to visit the chimp, and he brings a

birthday cake. "Happy birthday, buddy!" And the other chimps that are in cages right next to her, like this [inaudible]

"didn't bring me a cake! I can't believe this [inaudible]!". So they figured out a way to get out,

and they got out, and they attacked the man, and they tore him apart. They tore his face off. They tore his

they tore his feet off, they bit his fingers off. It's one of the most horrific

cruel attacks you'll ever hear of, because they did it to try to take away from him

the things he wants and needs. Like, chimps recognize you need your fingers in order to do things, you need your face in order to see,

you need your hands in order to [ __ ] so that's the things they go after. [ __ ] [ __ ] They don't, they don't

just try to kill you; they try to take away what it means to be a human. So if you try to hide your

hands, they'll pull your hands away and open them up and bite them off like crazy with a

rage-filled look in their eye. And they don't communicate with language, so they only have the sense in their

head of what's fair and what's not fair and what you've done to them. So if you

do something that makes them jealous, they think immediately you've done something bad to them. They don't think, "No, no, I just gave

my friend a cake." Uh-uh. You made them feel bad, so it's you—you made them feel bad, so they go right

after you. It's, it's like a sort of a—it's an interesting study in the way sometimes people look at

things. Like, we've all been jealous, right? You've been jealous of someone; you see someone who's doing something well,

you're, "Oh, I wish I was that guy." But you don't go attack that person, right? People recognize like it's not his fault

that I feel bad that he has this Corvette. I just have to [ __ ] I just gotta

appreciate the guy's hustle. Guys out there kicking ass, all right? I gotta get my [ __ ] together, but there's

A thing that we have initially, especially when we're children, is we feel angry, like you feel upset, like you feel, uh...

like you've been shorted, like someone's, oh, why didn't I get that? This is [___] he gets it and I don't.

It's a fascinating part of humans. And then, humans, as we get older and more sophisticated with language, but still carry the same

childish emotions. We find reasons to be upset at someone for being successful. We find reasons—'eat the rich,' you know—we find we

just find these weird little ways that we can justify our jealousy or our anger or our disdain for those who are more

successful than we are. So it's like we're coming up with complicated, sophisticated ways to justify these primal behaviors that

chimps exhibit—just violent rage. So this guy—it's a famous case like this; you can see the pictures if you want to

see the pictures of the cake guy, of the guy who got his face ripped apart and fingers bitten off. And yeah, I mean,

he was in the hospital. That sounds great. Did you think folks at home—folks at home, prepare—don't show it on the screen

because it's rough, but Tony needs to see this. So you go give a chimp a cake? Yeah, I'm

not doing that. This is...wow. No nose! See how he bit his nose off? God, yeah. Look at his face. Oh, [___]! Yeah, this

is conscious. They said after this happened. Oh yeah, of course. Look at this. See his right hand, the fingers bitten off.

That's what they do; they bite off your fingers. That's the chimp right there. Chip, click on the chair in the right

hand corner. That's his chimp. Come on, what's my picture? Uh, what is that picture? I'm surprised he let him keep his ears.

Oh, that's the guy's face, Jamie. That's what that is. He's got a tracheostomy because he can't

breathe out of his mouth. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think that, you know, chimps exactly know the human anatomy

all that well, but they know what's important to you: your face, your fingers, somehow

tore this guy apart. So if he would have brought pieces of cake and given them to all the chimps in

all the cages, they'd all be happy. Yeah, but they're also angry that he's that they're

captive. So when they get captive, look, being captive for a chimp is probably a similar feeling

as to what it would be to be captive as a person. But if you see a chimp at the

zoo and you're um, you're in this big, they're in this big containment, they all these

monkey bars and stuff they could hang on, but there's a bunch of people staring at them like all day long. People are staring at

you through glass, and there's a ceiling, like there's a net over the top so you can't go over the top, and there's fences

and you're just like, [ __ ] every day is boring. Nothing happens. Nothing happens every day. There's no

lions, there's no fruit to go pick, there's no places to go journey to, to explore. Like chimps travel

around, man. They don't just sit in one particular 100-yard area for the rest of their life, and it's not even 100 yards

right. If you go to the LA Zoo, you ever see how small that enclosure is? Yeah, I went to the LA Zoo once, really high

really high, like on an edible. Yeah, and uh, I wrote a piece on my website uh, called uh, "The Animal Prison," and I was like, because

it made me feel I could, because you know when you're really [ __ ] super baked, you're

sensitive to everything, yeah, but just I I recognize how, instead of thinking about myself and thinking about, you know, "Oh, I'm gonna"

go to the zoo and see the monkeys," I went there and I immediately felt sadness. I was like, "Oh, no, these poor creatures"

like they don't want to be here. Like, what are we doing? Like, we can't do this." I was thinking like, "I gotta get out of"

here." It's true. No, you're right, and it's very bizarre. Same thing with SeaWorld. Same

Oh, SeaWorld's worse, yeah, because they're as smart as us, if not smarter.

Yeah, we don't we don't even really know how smart orcas are, right? Because or dolphins, because we put them

in these weird categories like, "How much email do they send? Um, do they make houses? No, they must be stupid." But they have a

cerebral cortex that's 40% larger than ours. We don't know how smart they are.

They they also they communicate; they have a weird, sophisticated language that we can't decipher. We can't decipher it; we don't know what

their language is. They've been able to recognize specific accents, so you know, there's like, you know, like

there's a Southern accent and a Cleveland accent; there's a Chicago accent. Orcas have accents.

Like, we can tell this by the sound. Oh, this is an orca from Alaska, or this is

an orca from Seattle. Yeah, it's crazy. It's [___] nuts, man. Meanwhile, we put them in a swimming pool,

a [___] swimming pool. It's so sad. How their fin droops once they get depressed. It's not

that they get depressed; they don't use it. It atrophies. It's like an arm that you don't pick anything up

With it, it just gets limp. Episodes of the Joe Rogan Experience are now free on Spotify. That's right, they're

free from September 1st to December 1st. They're going to be available everywhere, but after December 1st they will only be

available on Spotify, but they will be free. That includes the video; the video will also be there; it'll also be free. That's all we're

asking. Just go download Spotify. Much love.

Joe Rogan Talks About Chimp Attacks

JRE Clips

라이온은 일반적으로 일생 동안 단 한 번의 심각한 부상을 입습니다.

부상을 입으면 보통 몇 주 안에 굶주림으로 인해 사망하는 경우가 많습니다.

부상과 그에 따른 굶주림으로 사자가 사냥을 하지 못하는 것에 대한 논의.

사자가 원한을 품고 있는지에 대해 질문하고 이를 인지 기능과 연결합니다.

침팬지는 공정성에 대한 감각을 가지고 있어 부당함을 느낄 때 공격적으로 변합니다.

침팬지의 인간 공격은 종종 자원 분배가 불공평하다는 인식에서 비롯됩니다.

애완용 침팬지의 행동과 애완용으로 키우는 것의 위험성에 대한 일화입니다.

성체 침팬지는 매우 강하고 인간에게 심각한 위험을 초래할 수 있습니다.

침팬지는 지배와 공격의 표시로 손가락을 물어뜯습니다.

침팬지에게 생일 케이크를 선물해 다른 침팬지들이 공격하게 만든 한 남자의 이야기.

침팬지들은 탈출하여 남자를 잔인하게 공격하여 심각한 부상을 입혔습니다.

침팬지의 공격은 중요한 신체 부위를 목표로 하며, 이는 침팬지가 인간의 해부학적 구조를 잘 이해하고 있다는 것을 보여줍니다.

이 공격은 단순히 살인을 저지르고 싶어서가 아니라 질투심과 불공평함에 의한 것이었습니다.

침팬지의 분노와 인간의 질투, 그리고 인간이 자신의 부정적인 감정을 합리화하는 방식을 비교합니다.

인간이 특히 어린 시절에 경험하는 원초적인 분노와 부족함에 대한 감정에 대해 토론합니다.

인간은 나이가 들어도 유치한 감정을 유지하며 질투와 분노를 정당화할 수 있는 정교한 방법을 찾습니다.

인간은 침팬지의 즉각적인 폭력적 분노와 달리 원시적 행동에 대해 복잡한 정당화를 사용합니다.

얼굴이 찢어지고 손가락이 없는 등 피해자의 심각한 부상에 대한 설명.

침팬지들이 포로 생활에 어떤 동기를 부여받았을지 토론합니다.

침팬지 포획과 인간 포획을 비교하여 침팬지의 정신 상태에 미치는 부정적인 영향을 강조합니다.

동물원 인클로저의 제한적이고 단조로운 환경에 대한 설명입니다.

약에 취한 상태에서 동물원을 방문했다가 동물들의 슬픔을 깨달은 개인적인 일화.

씨월드에서 범고래와 돌고래의 포획에 대해 간략하게 설명합니다.

범고래의 지능과 복잡한 의사소통에 대해 논의하면서 우리가 가진 이해의 한계를 강조합니다.