[Music] Well, there's never a bad day to talk about money. It's something we're all thinking about all of the time, and one of the world's most well-known authors on the subject. He is the author of Rich Dad Poor Dad, none other than Robert Kiyosaki. Very nice to have you here, sir, in South Africa. And with him, someone who's done quite a lot of work with him, Sandy Jadeja, who is also here. He is the Chief Market Strategist for master trading strategies.com. Good to have you here too. Thank you. Thank you both very much. So, Robert, what brings you to South Africa? Well, I've been coming here for 20-something years because I'm a hunter. Good. I love this country. I love the people. It's a very powerful, rich country. What's kind of spooky about it is the gap between rich and poor is bad, and it's like the United States right now. Our gap between rich and poor is accelerating, and a lot of it because we have no financial education in schools.

I like to scare South Africans because this is a book written by a South African, Philip hlin MH. It says, When Money Destroys Nations. I know that book, yeah, very, I mean, this is what I want to say. This is America, yeah. America is just like Zimbabwe is now. So that's why I wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad. America now is the biggest Dead Nation in history, and we're about to go down. So it's that bad in your opinion. That's why sand is here because he's my, uh, co-anchor, should I say. He's going to help you to get your money out of America. Then, well, I mean, that's a scary thought. The genie Co efficient, the difference between the rich and the poor in a country, is something that gets brought up all the time, and people always focus on the rich, and they say, Well, you know, if we could just get more money out of them. But is it realistic, and you've written so much about money. There are so many things I want to ask you.

but let's start here. Is it realistic for countries to think they can just tax the rich into prosperity for the poor? Rich don't pay taxes. For number one, you know Trump. Trump is my good friend. I know people hate the man, but when he was being, he was in the campaign against Hillary Clinton, he was real crook. But anyway, Hillary says, But you don't pay, you don't pay taxes. And Trump says, That's because I'm smart. So historically, in 1773, America had a revolution against the British. It was called the Boston Tea Party. That's right. It was over some tea. Yes. So America was tax. America has been a tax-free Nation for years. And then this guy here, Marx. If you, I went to military school, we to study Marx, yeah. He encourages taxes. So if you support taxes, you're marks. And we know how well that goes for count. Yeah, right. Okay. So let's just go back a little bit in time because I your book has done so well all over the world. Why is it that some

people seem to develop a good relationship with money, and other people do not. It's a tough question you just asked, but one of the reasons I asked Sandy to come with me. Yeah, when you start with investing in money, I'm what's called fundamentals income statement, balance sheet statements of cash flow and all this sand is technical investor. He's technical. I'm fundamental, but why I don't cringe is because the next crash coming guys like he and I get rich. All right, that correct Sandy? Yeah, it's correct. I mean, it's a good question like why do some people, why does it work for some and not for others and I've always said it's like going to a coffee shop and asking for a coffee. Can I have a coffee? Well, what do you want? Espresso, Double Espresso, cappuccino, latte. So first of all, find out what it is that you want. Um, like Robert said, he's a fundamental side, mine's technical side. I look at pictures, Robert's side is more numbers. So for some people, they actually don't know.

that they've been trained to think just look at numbers. When actually, you can just look at pictures. And one thing about not just the South African economy. When you say pictures, you mean graphs. I'm going to go into that. So for some people, they look at the economy, and they're just looking at the South African economy, but it's all interrelated. But it's interrelated to the US dollar, right? So what we can do is to look at charts, and the charts simply give us four pieces of information: open, close, high, and low. And with that information, we can create patterns. And I will get richer when it crashes. That's investing, you see. When people are afraid, that's when they panic. Or when prices are going up, they get excited. We don't care if it's going up or down. That's a pure capitalist. So when this crashes, like you're expecting a crash now, yeah. So what we're seeing right now in terms of going back to that picture theory, the chart theory markets.

very often historically you know you go back to the early 1800s you'll see markets moving patterns of threes and fives, and this is really interesting. Right now, the US markets, which is the S&P 500, the NASDAQ, the Dow Jones, are now completing the fifth wave pattern. So what it's suggesting is that there is a big decline ahead. But we're also interestingly, and Robert and I were having this conversation, is that we're seeing real estate prices rising, stock markets rising, bonds rising, the US Dollar rising, and we've got also Bitcoin, the digital currencies, on the rise. So what happens if it all starts going down? Where's the safest place to put your money? And that's why education is absolutely critical. But we actually get richer when it crashes. I know you told me that now twice. I'm starting to worry. Yeah, but that's real financial education. So Sandy and Robert, I mean, when people are worried about where to put their money, and many people have been, and we've seen some ups

and downs over the last couple of years. It's been a lot of talk about gold, about Bitcoin, about stocks, um, about raw materials, uh, you know, we're in a country where people don't even have that much money to invest. Most people are living hand to mouth. What would you advise people who have even a little bit of money to do with that in uncertain times like these? I'll start by saying that not everybody understands Bitcoin, but most people understand gold. So, if anybody in South Africa had just been purchasing um, small ounces of gold, has the value of money risen or has the value and the price of gold risen, the L so why not start there, yeah, right? And I mean for you, Robert, when you wrote that book all those years ago now, um, all of those things still ring true. Absolutely, I wrote it because I'm so concerned about this gap between rich and poor and like that's why I keep saying to people the US is the next Zimbabwe when

the US goes down, the world's going to come apart. So that's why, as we're talking, you have the BRICS - Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa - yeah, the world's coming out after the US. Yeah, I find a very interesting time personally and most people kind of fat, dumb, and happy. Well, I have a house, my stock market's up, but I think chaos is about to start. Would you agree with that? Yeah, as I said, we're in this, in terms of the markets, we're in this fifth wave, and that could take a few months to a few years. It depends on your own personal horizon. What I'm seeing this year, there's 45 elections around the world, so all at the same time, pretty much. The markets, in my view, are just going to be rigged and just propped up. So once that's out of the way, what other good news is left? And so then fear starts to set in. Don't forget, it's not just the markets that are up, and like I said earlier on, real estate. What else is

up inflation, yeah. And well, printing money is absolutely killing wealth. And that's why when Robert said, you know, the whole concept of why America should fall is, think about how many countries' currencies are pegged with the US dollar. But I want to ask you about that for a second. You mentioned Trump just now, and Joe Biden is going around telling everybody that the economy is fine and employment numbers are up, and inflation's not that much of an issue. I mean, it sounds very tone-deaf to a lot of us, especially because he's the guy who printed trillions of dollars. This is a recipe for disaster. Does he not understand where inflation comes from? Has he not got anybody with a brain in the White House to help him figure this out? I think Biden is the worst president we've ever, ever, ever had. The man is a criminal. You know, there's a saying that you think tough leaders are bad, to see what the damage of a weak leader can do, and Biden is the weakest we've ever had. His first job, his

first day day one was to cut the Keystone Pipeline between Canada and America. He cut that. I'm an oil guy. I sell. I have oil. I have oil stock. Oil wells. So I was under Trump, my friend. We were selling oil at $30 a barrel. When B came to office, oil went to 130 a barrel. I knew exactly what that criminal is doing. He's going to sabotage the poor in middle class. Next step. Revolt. The gap between rich and poor is accelerating under Biden. And I heard just this week he's opening up the Northeast oil reserves to try Northwest oil reserves to try to try gas gas. He's trying to pump that into the system to just try and reduce the price of gas for people at at the patrol station. That man's a criminal. Okay, no, no. He cut the Keystone Exile pipeline. America under Trump was a oil-rich nation, but when he cut that off, then the price of oil went up. And then so what Biden did, he drained the Strategic oil Reserve. Right now he's

draining the Strategic gas reserves. He's making us bankrupt. Biden is a criminal. Look at his son Hunter. You know the FBI can't find his lap top. I mean give me a break. Give me a break. No, I'm in complete agreement with you on all of that even though, even though in but in America that's still contentious stuff. Um, do you think that Biden had a Rich Dad Poor Dad situation or just a Poor Dad situation, you're a criminal situation as far as I'm concerned. There should be a third book, you're Rich Dad Poor Dad crooked dad. All right, well I'm concerned because where America catches a sneeze the rest of us die a cold. Amen. So we've got to worry about this when you look at things that have happened in the market since you wrote this book and in your case Sandy since you advise people all the time on what to do with their Investments and you look at what the market movements are um do these things come suddenly like we've hear we we

always hear stories about Great Depression, and how people were jumping out of buildings because they lost everything. Or do they creep upon you, and you don't even know until it's too late. For me, what I look at is charts all the time, and it's sometimes it will scream out patterns. What you've seen over history is that the peak of human emotions, everybody's bullish at the top, so everybody thinks everything's okay. I just want to go back a second to something that you said this. You know there's, there's, um, does Washington know that there is an economic crisis? The people to ask are the General Public. Are things expensive right now? Are you able to have enough money at the end of the month that you're not having to think about what to spend on? And if you go around the world, and people will tell you no, the cost of food has gone up, the cost of fuel has gone up, and the cost of starting and running businesses have gone up. But has wages kept up with

inflation. No, no way. So, that in itself is a crisis. So, it's not that it's creeping up, it's been happening for a long time. But once that market crashes, it will crash in three waves. So, the first wave is a shock, the second wave is when they think it's actually not that bad, and then a third wave comes in, and that's when everybody panics. But you should be stepping in to buy at lower prices. So, again, it comes down to education, learning how to recognize the patterns. It's not about creeping up, it's about recognizing the patterns. Well, there's an old Buffett line about when others are greedy, be fearful, and when others are fearful, be greedy, right? Yeah. So, Robert, I mean, you've taken a lot of useful information and helped us to understand it over the years, but when you look at the way that people deal with money these days, and especially because everybody's in a consumer culture, nobody's really thinking too far into

the future. Um, you hear about Millennials and Gen Z and how they're not interested in investing in the house they live in necessarily, or stocks and shares. Do you think that this is a crisis that we've precipitated by being cavalier about money? Yes and no. I mean, when I did my research on it, on money, because money is kind of my subject, not the market, but money in and around in 1930, the Rockefeller Foundation formed the General Education Board, GGB or something. And what they did was they dictated to the school systems what subjects could be taught in school. And the Rockefellers are the one who says we're not going to teach money. So it's, you know, read things like that, you go, why, why did they do that? I don't have an answer, but the General Education Board of America, that's why we have no financial education in schools. And the most powerful union in America, again, Marx always said, join a union, the most powerful union in America is a teachers union, teachers union, and my

poor dad was head of the teachers union right? And my Rich Dad just hated unions. You know, he says, well they're always trying to take more money but work less, make more. You know, that's capitalism versus Marxism. I think the biggest message with Sandy around is the point is you can make it going up or down. It doesn't make any difference. But if you're only thinking, well, I have to invest for the long term, you're probably going to get hammered. Or if you're saving money today, what was the Rand at when you just did a, so 1995, the Rand you were getting, or you were giving three Rand to a dollar, mhm, and right now it's what, 18.45 today. That's a 600% increase right in terms of the devaluation. Yeah, the devaluation is just I know if I take my rands to go and travel to visit you in America, it's not going to work so well, yeah. So I feel for you guys. I love this country. I feel

for it you know I go wow. What do what do either of you have to say about the fact that a lot of this is blamed on the idea of capitalism, mostly by people on the left who really don't know what they're talking about, but they like to blame capitalism like we would blame communism for so much of what went wrong in the Eastern block of the old days, you know, prior to the wall collapsing. But capitalism seems to have become equated with all the ugliness that we know communism delivered. That's not right. Those people don't understand. Explain why for the idiots at the back, you know. Well, the reason I wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad is like my in 1965 I to read this book here common Manifesto by Marx and I realized my family are Marxists. They're good people, but it's like a, you know, economics is like a religion. You can be Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim. Well, economics is like a religion too. So they believe in taxation, they believe in

labor unions, and they attack the rich. You know, someday you'll own nothing, and they'll be happy, right? That's what's going on magnified today in America. We're printing a trillion dollars every 90 days, so we are a Zimbabwe. Yeah, I mean you keep holding up those books, you should be holding up your book the whole time because I think, although those inform it, but the idea that capitalism gets the blame for all of this, that the system of capitalism is somehow responsible for the fact that people find themselves in financial trouble, that's a misnomer, is it? Let's just break it down in simplistic terms. So, the Communist thought is everybody should be at the same level. Is that really a fair, yeah, equally unhappy, right? Is that really a fair system, whereas the capitalist system is saying, well, look, you have the opportunities in front of you, what can you do with it? And today we live in a world of technology, which was unseen just four to five decades ago.

right, so why not use those tools to just create your own economy instead of being part of the big economy, which goes through recessions. And as Robert said, for me, I'm really not interested if the markets or the economies are going up or down, but I'll make money fast in the crashes, and I love the crashes, okay, they don't happen that often but it's nice to have them. And so we're expecting this what we call all the big reset, the great reset. Oh, um, so they're telling us it's coming. When you see him smiling, you should be worried that he's a bad news Omen, that's what he is. So, but look, yesterday the Dow Jones dropped 600 points and the media are all over it and saying that how bad it was. Was it really? It was a good day to make money. Why was it a bad day? The education isn't there to teach people on how to make money both ways. The education is simply, you know, you're employed, you're going to be

paying high taxes by the end of the day, you're so exhausted that you don't have time to think of how to improve your situation designed by purpose. Yeah, it's almost as if, and I think a lot of people feel this way, that everything is rallied against you and you have to figure out for yourself. As Robert said, they're not going to teach you this in schools, they never teach you about things like taxes at school, and that's probably some of the most important information you could get, but you feel like you're on your own. Where do we go, who do we talk to, how do we find the information we need? Well, that's what there's in good books. This is a great, nothing, not my book, I like to prom other people's books. Sure, it's called The Price of Tomorrow right by Jeff Booth. I recommend everybody get this book. I think this guy here is the next genius coming up. He is like this guy here, Buckminster Fuller, who wrote the book The Grunch of Giants, the grunch.

is what's going on now. This is 82, I think three came out. Our wealth is stolen via our money. Yeah, and the reason what this book is saying is how you prevent yourself from being a victim of grunch. So he's, and this, this guy's, he's a big Bitcoin promoter, and the things he says are so profound. I'm, you know, aha moments ago. Yeah, that's what's happening, right? So that's why I recommend study. If you listen to a poor person about money or a Marxist, you'll get their ideas. Like I was talk about going to church, they also have to say thing. The love of money is the root of all evil. Yeah, I say, well, maybe for you, but not for me, you know? But the difference between Marxism and capitalism is, you know, Marxism, you give a man a fish, capitalism teaches people to fish. We're capitalists, right? So Africa is an interesting story, and I'm sure that you're not oblivious, both of you paying attention to what's happening all over.

the world. But the things that are going on here are much more about survival, and we don't have enormously developed economies. Some of us have slightly more developed economies in places like South Africa, Egypt, Ghana, Kenya, but a lot of countries in on this continent are still in developing mode. And we are a hungry market for products and for services. Um, we're also an unsaturated market in this, in this part of the world that could be an advantage if we, if we use it prop if we understand it, and we, and we make it work for us, uh, rather than a disadvantage. The richest countries have the poorest people. Interesting, isn't that? I love when he says that. Look at how rich this country. Explain it though because people are going to be going, what? Okay, Africa. Uh, we were in Kenya yesterday, and I was looking out of the window, and you know what I saw? Huge vast land and riches comes through commodities, not the stock market. If you really want to make real money, it's actually commodities. So does Africa have

Commodities, of course, right? Does Indonesia have commodities, of course, so all the biggest countries with the mass land and US land but have the poorest people. Why is that? Shouldn't we be living from the land, not off the land, and yet we're not, you know? We have right now. I mean, how many times have you walked down the street and seen an increase in homelessness? I'm seeing it all over the world. Along the way here, we were being driven here. I saw something really fascinating, rubbish, yeah, all over the streets, right? And why? I mean, doesn't that cause diseases, yeah, right, harmful? So why isn't a country like this, which has wealth, even doing the basics, cleaning up the streets, providing good clean water, safe food, good Educational Systems? In a word, government. We've got a rubbish government, but also we've got a potential solution to that problem you've just raised because we've got massive unemployment and you don't need to be skilled. You don't need to have three degrees to know how to pick up

rubbish. We could pay people to do that, but is that what you're educating people to? Just pick up rubbish? No, I should hope not. But unfortunately, our education system, we spend more proportionately than almost any other country in the world on education, we get the worst outcomes. But are you providing the right education? No, clearly not. And again, it's got something to do with the fact that the priorities are not lined up correctly in government. You could spend and spend and spend, but if you don't have... If you have powerful teachers unions, which we also have in this country, and you have people being taught stuff that is not useful in the market, obviously that's not going to turn out very, very capable people. And the world's changing, but it's not keeping up. Education is not keeping up with the world changes. How long does it take for an educational curriculum to pass through legislation, through a university, exactly? And the world's changed. Yeah, I mean, technology is an interesting thing, right, Robert? How when you wrote the book, obviously things

were very different too. You didn't have access to the kind of information at a moment's notice that you can get now. I'm sure this helps you make decisions too, Sandy, but when you are looking for, you know, the right charts, for example, to figure out what's going on with oil and oil prices, before you would have had to look those up, you would have had to have a bunch of people doing the research for you. That's changed quite a lot, and it's available now to everybody, right? And technology is changing everything fast. That's why this book here, not I'm, I get no money from this, The Price of Tomorrow, is how prices are coming down. Yeah, but this guy also talks about how you have the IND um, you have the internet here, yeah, Bitcoin is lying right on top of it, and so Bitcoin is the next technology, then comes AI, right? Right? We're going to say like Elon Musk of Tesla, mhm, they've, they're laying off tens of thousands, you know, business going broke because technology is replacing people. I come

from Phoenix, Arizona. At the present, the cars in the streets have no drivers. You know, it's a testing ground for Waymo. And my friend says this strangest thing. He catches a Waymo. He's sitting there. It's pouring rain, but there's no windshield wiper on because, you know, I mean, they need to see where. Waymo doesn't have to see anything. They just drive along the streets. And when you think about the acceleration of technology, it's frightening. AI is going to jump everything one more level. So that's why what this guy is talking about, the price of tomorrow, is really free. Well, that is a bit of good news in an otherwise pretty bleak situation financially for most people. So, Robert, what to go back to basics here for people who are really stuck, confused, they feel like they've made bad decisions about money in their life. Why is understanding money a good thing? And why does money give you options that you might not have if you're poor? It sounds so obvious.

me, but for lots of people, this isn't obvious. Well, that's why it's this book here, again, The Grunch of Giants. It's how our wealth is stolen via our money, like sand, and I don't trust between wealth and money. Well, there's big wealth. We don't trust our government. No, okay. So, a lot of people say, Oh, the government will fix the problem. The government is the problem, if you know what I mean. That's where it starts. Reagan said that, right? Yeah, something like that. But, well, I wasn't where I was going with that one, but I sit there going, Why? Who do you trust today? Yeah, and who's going to teach you what today? That's really the question. Like, I didn't do well in Sunday school either. I was a terrible student, but I remember at my little Sunday school teacher. I was like seven years old. She says, Why were the three wise men wise? And I said, Because they were rich. She goes, No, that's not it. I said, Yeah, they were rich. They had

frankinson gold and myrr she say that's not it. I said so why were the three wise men wise. She says they're looking for the best teacher. Ah so the key in life is look for the teacher you want to be like very good you know very good. I mean it's better to have money and and not need it than to need it and not have it another way. Don't ask somebody without money what to do with your money. Oh yeah right correct. I mean don't ask poor people for financial advice. And is it true in your opinion Sandy that money makes money money. You know I hate to say it but you know the the term's being used widely money doesn't sleep it's moving around the clock MH. I mean take the concept you you go to an educational establishment like a school or a college or university and they're telling you to study hard to get a job right and the job in in exchange you're going to get money but the concept or the history of it was never ever ever taught.

where did it come from? What's the purpose of it? And you know, what are you going to do with? And what's the future of money? It's completely avoided. And it's important to understand that right now you have the global financial markets at your fingertips. Everybody is using a phone, and you got access to information. 35 years ago, you want to book a line ticket. Who you go to a travel agent. Today, you book it online. 35 years ago, you want to invest in the markets. You go to fund managers. What kind of returns did they really give to you? But take the big commission fees. But you can do that today. You can get started today, believe it or not, for $100 to $500. So it's just really getting started, but you've got to dip your toes in the water. Don't think about it. Do it. Learn through the mistakes. Make the mistakes. There's nothing wrong with that, but you've got to get your hands wet, right? And what are they also say?

about timing the markets and time in the markets. Also, let me just say this much, and Rich Dad put it, I said there are three rules: savers are losers, the rich don't work for money, your house is not an asset. So, people are programmed to say, I'm going to save money. So, if you're saving Rand, you're going down fast. Yeah, and so, the thing is, got to change. You know what Mommy and Daddy plugged in here, right? Because times have changed. Yes, that might have been a good strategy back in those days. It certainly isn't now. Well, 71 Nixon changed it all by taking the gold, the dollar off the gold standard, and then dollar became debt. So, when people ask me how I make my money, I said I use debt. I go to the bank and I borrow money, and they go, What's dangerous? I said, Yes, it is, but that's what that's money is, is debt, you know, right? I got one more thing. This Buck Mr. Fuller said, Rich, rich and wealthy, was the question. Yeah, Rich is

how much you have wealth is how many days can you survive without working. Wow, so my goal was that I would never have to work again, and it took me to age 37, and you're at 77 now. Yes, congratulations. Yes, at 40 years, congratulations. Money comes in whether I work or not, that's wealthy. I love it, gentlemen. It's such a pleasure to spend some time with you, and thank you for visiting South Africa. And I think there are probably a lot of fans of your book who will want to, uh, to see you and meet you. But they can also get the book, it's still out there for sale. How many years now? 28 or 29? 28. 29 years Rich Dad Poor Dad has been out on the shelf. Sandy, very lovely to meet you. Pleasure, thank you. Thank you both. What a pleasure. Keep up the good work. Very educational. Thank you. Thank you. Very good. [Music]

The Robert Kiyosaki Interview

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