when YouTube launched, I don't think any of us could have imagined that all of our short clips and videos could replace TV and even dethrone Netflix. YouTube is now the biggest streamer in the world. YouTube is 10% of viewing, Netflix is 8.4, bigger than Amazon Prime Video, bigger than Hulu. YouTube is a juggernaut. In this episode, we'll explain how it happened, and we'll hear what a Hollywood insider thinks about this battle between YouTube and Netflix. Yeah, I have some strong feelings on that. Lastly, we'll share our predictions and our takes on what this all means for creators in the next chapter of entertainment. And if you make it to the deep end, you'll hear from our showrunner, hot take Dave. What was that? What is that one? What is that? This is hot take Dave's second appearance on the show. Could be his last. Dave, stop it. I don't know why I'm doing it. All right, let's get into [Music] it. SME. I want to start this episode with

A video that was uploaded to the Netflix investors relations YouTube channel is that a real YouTube channel. It's a real YouTube channel, okay. It has 12,000 views, this video that I'm talking about, and it is their Q2 2024 earnings report, okay. Now, this is when they take questions from shareholders. One of the questions that they get is about YouTube specifically. Does Netflix see YouTube as a competitor, and if so, what are they planning to do about it? Now, we clearly do compete with YouTube in certain segments of their business, and we certainly compete with them for time and attention, but our services also feed each other really well. Our teasers and trailers and behind-the-scenes clips and all those kinds of things are incredibly popular on YouTube. I think it's also important to note that Netflix fulfills an important and differentiated need for both consumers who really want, you know, they want amazing spectacle movies and TV shows, you know, shows like Stranger Things or Wednesday, and it's really hard to imagine how that kind of big creative

bet would happen and be possible within YouTube's model. So the answer that they give is very yes and no. Yes, sure, it's competitive because we are competing for attention on TV specifically, like there's no doubt. They also say it's not competitive because they don't think YouTube would be able to have content like theirs, like premium expensive content, like some of their shows, like Stranger Things, like Wednesday, because it doesn't fit in YouTube's model. But at the end of the day, when you look at these numbers from the Nielsen report, when you look at the sheer fact that 10% of streaming watch hours are given to YouTube, and people are going to YouTube instead of Netflix for that, that's significant. And what's even more interesting to me is that when you look at their business models, they are colliding. Like Netflix is subscriptions, that's their business. YouTube, it's advertising. But Netflix added an advertising tier. YouTube has subscriptions with YouTube Music and YouTube Premium. And in a way, they are in an effort to become each other. So

They really are very competitive, but they're so different in the way that they acquire, produce, and release content. So, all of this was pretty surprising for me because, like, in 2012 when we first started, or 2011 when we first started on YouTube, this was like the thesis, right? We would go into rooms and talk about how, like, this is the modernization of TV. This is YouTube is the next wave of entertainment, but it did actually feel really far away at that point. And to hear YouTube come up in Netflix's earnings call this much and to be really defined as a true competitor to Netflix does feel like a moment where I'm like, Oh wow, this really happened. Yeah, like, Oh, you're talking about us, you're talking about us. Like, that's the weird thing is, like, they're talking about YouTube, the platform, but what they're talking about is all of us as creators. Like, we're the ones occupying that time on connected TV, and that, to me, was like one of the most interesting realizations this week of, like, Oh my God.

this really happened, and how did it happen? Like, how did this actually happen? And moving forward, will YouTube continue to be dominant and become more like Netflix but still stay YouTube? Or will Netflix overtake YouTube and begin to look more like YouTube? So, that's what we wanted to explore and find out. And I want to play for all of you our conversation with Scott Gimple, who was the showrunner of The Walking Dead for many years. He's a Hollywood writer, Hollywood producer, a true Hollywood insider who has a super unique take and perspective on YouTubers. With you as a Hollywood showrunner, when you think about the streaming war between these two playing out, do you consider Netflix and YouTube competitors? And how do you think that war plays out over the next coming years? I think YouTube has an incredible advantage. You know, I come from week-to-week television, and what's fascinating to me is I feel YouTube has taken that space. Like, that was the thing I was.

was consuming these videos, and then I would have to wait a week or more, depending on the Creator. But that creates a relationship, that creates a ritual, that creates a way to your week. What Ryan Tran did with that, like one video a day for like 30 days, I mean, he got me hooked, where at the end of it, I was so bummed that I wasn't starting my morning with that. It's the consistency that creates the relationship with the audience that makes it, I don't know, makes it something that they want in their lives perpetually. And it just feels that YouTube is taking over that space from TV a little bit, that Weekly relationship, and you know, that fascinates me. It also has me hooked when I watched the bear season 3. I'm a big fan of the bear, but I realized when they dropped season 3 in a binge model, you know, normally if it's week to week, I have so many questions left unanswered as a viewer that I can't wait, and those questions get bigger and

bigger the more that that week goes on, and I felt like with the bear season 3, the questions, uh, they were left unanswered, but then they were so quickly answered, and it didn't generate the same fandom as some of the week-toe experiences that I've had. I think because that gap in terms of questions left unanswered gets answered so quickly, and I get accustomed to that. The basis of the bear is the basis of television in my mind, which is, which in some ways is the basis of YouTube. It's characters, and granted on YouTube, it's real people, but on TV, it's characters with which the audience wants to spend time with. They want them to be in their lives, and a lot of times, they're people that they wish were at their school or their workplace or their places of worship. But to have them as a regular presence in their lives on those shows or on YouTube, that's important to them. Now with the binge model though, I think the other thing, and this isn't a

secret to anybody but the community goes out the window in some way. You know when those Revelations are shared at the exact same time, and they're building, and they're building, and the building. Um, a finale was such a big Community event, and like for years it was when you would gather up. And here's a question I have. I feel it's like a naive question that I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know the answer to it, and I've asked some people, and I still don't understand. Why don't the streamers program weeks? Like meaning this, you know, stranger things will be out Wednesdays at 8. Why don't they build those appointments for people, and then people can watch it whenever they want? If they miss the appointment, to me, that seems like a way to potentially get that live Community again. Maybe people on Netflix will watch this episode and start to program it that way. Send it to the Show Business committee, Scott. It's a compelling case. You know them, right? Show Business.

committee is so they're so rough man. Have you started to think in your head at all about like what type of creative you could put on YouTube or is that a conversation amongst your cohort, your peers at all? Because one of the points was that in the Netflix earnings call was that like it's hard to imagine such a large creative bet being placed on YouTube. But is there a certain conversation amongst showrunners or creat in Hollywood that's like hey maybe we could put a pretty big creative bet over there on the strike lines. It was a constant conversation and I think about it all the time because there's fewer and fewer companies, there's fewer, there's less and less distribution. But it seems within YouTube, the aesthetic of YouTube or just the expectations of YouTube, it'd be difficult. But then you know Wesley Langang and what he did, you know Wesley made that short and now he's in a very, very conventional situation right with Sony. Is there a world where the kind of creativity that was applied to

both the content and making that short was also applied into the next step. I wonder if a middle ground will emerge. Like the way we're looking at it is there's Netflix, it's premium, it's bought, it's planned, it's not necessarily week to week. And then there's YouTube, which is totally Democratic, anyone can upload. I think about as Netflix wants to continue to compete with YouTube. Their Live Events are already a little more like low brow. They're looking obviously to compete from an advertising perspective. Does Netflix open up a Creator plus program or something which is a bit of an in between where they're licensing work from YouTube creators that is licensable. They are almost like YouTuber Originals did. They are funding some projects and then they're tapping into the Indie Market as well and sort of bringing people to this Middle Ground. That's a part of Netflix's offering. It did. I don't know if it really worked for YouTube because YouTube operates so differently where you can't really just drop a premium.

series of 10 episodes and see what happens. You have to have distribution built over time, but Netflix kind of has that, and they have the money to spend. That's sort of my prediction, and my thought is that it goes that way. I mean, the weird case study that we have is Cobra Kai, right? I mean, it started on YouTube Red, and it just didn't take hold, and then it went over to Netflix, and it's a huge hit. You know, what we were talking about, is there some sort of hybrid between Netflix and YouTube? Is that coming, or is somebody going to figure out a way to tell stories on YouTube that is viable from an economic standpoint, that also captures the audience's attention within, you know, the YouTube Marketplace, which is endless? Like, is there another way? I was going to ask, like, with your experience in week-to-week television and with shows like ours starting to occupy that space, what advice would you give to us and creators like us who are producing week-to-week on, like, how to be successful?

at it like the next crop of creatives and storytellers are turning to YouTube first. They are producing content that, although feels completely new and different, has its roots in television. Like, we see a lot of old MTV formats showing up on YouTube now, and we're starting to see stuff that used to work when I was a kid watching TV that's now working on YouTube. So, I'm curious if, like, if you stepped into the shoes of being the showrunner for the Colin and Samir show or another YouTube channel that's week to week. How do you build that level of fan community? How do you build appointment viewing? Because we are in the ads business just like any other TV show. The difference is we are also the network, so we have to operate like a network. I mean, I think the number one thing that you're doing, and I also know the mental and physical cost it takes, so I say this with a grain of salt, but the week-to-week consistency is

everything that is the thing where you look at 200 people working on a television show, and maybe there's a reason why, because that's how you can do an episode a week, that's how you can have that consistency. It isn't on like four people, right, to do that, and that's where you're like, Oh, there's a reason for that, because people would burn out and barely be able to make it, even with the technology available with their fingertips. Like, a team is a big thing, and I'll say when I did the ones who live, that was the last thing I show ran. I oversaw all the shows. That was the Rick and Michonne show that came out this year. You know, we, it was six episodes, so we did it in the way that, you know, sort of modern television does. All the writers are on, you write it, and then they're gone, and I'm the last one left, so I have my showrunner job, and I have, you know, rewriting to do, and I'm prepping, and I'm shooting, and

Back when I did 16 episodes, I had a whole staff of writers the entire time who were writer-producers, in fact, and they were on set handling the things while I was doing other things. For six episodes, it all fell to me, and it was a very, very different experience. I thought 80 episodes of The Walking Dead was easier than six episodes on my own. Wow, that's really interesting. That is a good point. That's a really good point. I so I I can say like, Oh, be consistent. Yeah, I I I do realize that's maybe an impractical suggestion. So all right, there's a lot to unpack there. From our conversation with Scott, I found it to be like so interesting to talk to someone who has spent their whole life in traditional, conventional Hollywood, talk to them about YouTube, and hear him say the penny series had me hooked. Yeah, that's crazy to hear him talk about that. Um, but I I will say the the first thing that that took that made me like step back was his comparison of YouTube to week-to.

television, and when he said that, I hadn't really thought about my experience of week-to-week television, like remembering so deeply in high school when a bunch of us would get together on Sunday nights and we'd watch Entourage. Yeah, and that was like, that framed the week, like he said, that was the group of characters that we would all, they were part of our life, and because it was week-to-week, it allowed us to like event this thing and get together, and like they were such big parts of our lives, those characters. Yeah, and I'm sure that was the same thing with friends, and the same thing with Seinfeld, and the same thing with The Office when it was on week-to-week. It wasn't spectacle, it was hanging out with friends. Yeah, that's what it felt like, right? Both your own friends as you would watch with them, and the friends that you've felt like you've made through the characters that you know so well. And I had never thought that YouTube had replaced that, like had

stepped into that space and the impact of binge binge TV or binge watching on this concept of like week toe TV where when it's this binge model it's like it just kind of comes out people watch it at their own pace and you and I could be watching totally different things but when we were watching Entourage and like everyone in our age group was on watching Entourage you were in New Jersey watching the same shows as me yeah with your friends and I was in LA like there was there was a culture that was developing and that that seems to be a consistent theme but I thought about like who is doing YouTube in a way that is week toe TV and it's not necessarily just shows that are you know literally week to week I was thinking about like Marquez brownley MKBHD it's so rare to experience a week without an MKBHD upload yeah as an audience member you always know there's another one coming out yeah you think about Rett and Link like when they do their show and it's on

like every morning, people definitely wake up and watch Good Mythical Morning and their ones. Like, there's this famous quote from our interview with them that we cite all the time in our office. In 10 years, you haven't really missed an upload 'cause it was a show. Since when are you watching a show and like it doesn't come on? The showrunner tweets out, Not getting one out this week, right? Has South Park ever missed? We don't miss. It's a show. And they think about that. Um, it made me think a lot about the question that we always get of Should you focus on quality or should you focus on quantity when it comes to being a Creator? And I think it's maybe reframing it. Of course, you always want to have quality, but it's more about consistency than it is just quantity, right? That like there is so much value to just being there in someone's life on a consistent basis and that that's what streamers have given up. They could have had that. It's a model from TV. Yeah, Scott says.

he's like, Why don't they do that right? but they just don't. Consistency. Building consistency on YouTube requires building an audience, which dictates the creative for you as a storyteller. All of a sudden, the easiest way to be consistent is to create basically what I'm going to call editorial content, content that is less storytelling and more talking about storytelling. And to me, the question that he was asking is, Can YouTube or Netflix incentivize young creative filmmakers to not have to build an audience and to build just great story? So that brings, yeah, because he does. He asked the question of, like, Could Wesley Wang, after releasing a trailer for something and now garnering over seven million views, instead of selling it to Sony, is there another version of that where he can just make that show in the same way that he made it on YouTube? Right? Yeah. And I think one of the questions that I asked myself as I experienced this whole conversation of YouTube and Netflix one.

thing that I think is interesting to discuss is like how much of YouTube's success is about the creators and our work that we put out on the platform and how much of its success is based on Discovery and the algorithm. YouTube's Discovery mechanisms would have to really prioritize net new shows or it have to change a bit because it is a very personalized platform for everyone. So like if a new filmmaker puts something out and puts out like a 10 episode series, it's very hard to get into the hands of the whole Community. Yeah, I would say on the other end of that Spectrum, you have Rett and Link who are putting out there what they're calling basically a TV show Wonder hole on their R Link channel. Yeah, but they've built up distribution over years. Yeah, so that they can do that. If you are not them, let's take another example Max Joseph. Max Joseph released a whole series on happiness and is releasing it right now on his YouTube channel, but he's not nearly as consistent as like a rtin link or even a

you and I, if we wanted to make something like really premium that felt more like TV and release it, he's doing it, and he's having some success doing it, but he's at a disadvantage because he hasn't been someone who uploads regularly every single week, right? Mhm. Is there a place for someone like him and a series like his who's not consistent every week on YouTube to come to YouTube, put something out, 10 episodes, and still get it discovered, or is that something that Netflix does? Yeah, for creators, right? Like, is there, with Netflix adding an ad tier, they need more content, they need more audience. Does Netflix develop something that opens the door? I think so. I think there's no doubt that that's the future as they need to grab more content for their ad tier. It just makes perfect sense to me, and it's also a model they already do. Like, they pay for content that they didn't produce themselves. Seinfeld is on Netflix. It's 30 years old. It's not a strange model like traditional Hollywood.

understands the licensing model, but I also think they could Greenlight stuff that has not been made yet. I think it has to be new content because if you look at like the so again the I don't think it has to be new. You don't think it has to be new content? Absolutely not. You don't think Michelle car's challenge accepted could just show up for five years on Netflix in the ad tier? Yeah, it could. It could. It totally could. Why not? But I think when we're talking about this like week toe TV, like does Netflix ever get into that? Does Netflix ever bring that back? There was a bit of it like there. There is a bit of that with like Live Events, appointment viewing, stuff like that. But if they're going to get into that, I do think they need like Originals or a place for us to create in that environment. I think this makes a lot more sense for YouTube given the nature of the content and the creators. YouTube should have a channel where you don't have to actually

click and search or choose a video. They should have multiple channels of broadcasted content from their premium creators, where there's just videos playing like a TV channel, but a TV channel, a series, or TV channels within the platform itself, where you can passively sit back on your couch and go, What's on YouTube today? You know, that is interesting. And I want to, I do like that because I was thinking about this in the context of the Olympics right now. Olympics is going on. I'm a huge Olympics fan, by the way. This guy's a big Olympics fan. Olympics is going on right now. I turn on YouTube TV, and there's this like quad box of four events to watch. Yeah, and I'm overwhelmed. Same. And I look at it, I'm like, But what are we all watching? And the same concept of like the week-to-TV where there's a collective viewing experience. I remember watching the Olympics and going, What's on NBC? That's what we're all watching. That's the event and all of the world or all of

America is watching this one event, and that's fun because then we're all having a collective experience. But when you have this amount of optionality over time, it is going to get increasingly more overwhelming. And you look at like Netflix's successes in live programming. What's interesting about it is that it reduces the optionality that when you log into Netflix. The Night of the roast of Tom Brady, that's the thing. And I think over time, when you look at YouTube and you look at Netflix and what they're to compete towards, it's going to be the competition for those moments, the moments where you turn on YouTube and you're like, Oh, this is the thing that we're watching, or This is the thing we're watching on Netflix. And I think in order for them to both compete in the broader conversation and entertainment over long periods of time, it's going to be those tent pole things that we all know we're watching. So, the idea around like a YouTube stream of Premium content is pretty interesting. I do

think that YouTube's long-term strategy is we want people to be talking about a certain thing, but we have the creators that you're going to actually go watch talking about that thing. So, you're not going to talk about that thing physically with anybody, or maybe you will, but maybe you won't, but you're going to come to our platform to watch our handful of very famous creators talk about that thing. And I don't know if Netflix can create that roster for themselves. I think unless you have a truly thematic place or where you really lower the bar, like you really lower the barrier of entry for what's allowed to go on Netflix, I agree, you're not going to get that culture of people talking in real time about cultural events. And on Netflix, you don't have comments; like, there's no real interactivity there. So, you know, when you look at YouTube creators and modern creators, like, it's not odd right now to have a premium tier content offering, right? So, second try, try.

guys launch second try. They have shown on second try um side plus. The siden are a great example of week toe TV and then premium offering with side plus. And you look at like nebula. Nebula is a creator-owned streaming platform and it has shows like jet lag and um other cool like interesting shows. There's 680,000 subscribers to that and all of what's happening is like you know these these creators and and modern media companies independent media companies are able to produce formats at 22 plus minutes that are 10 episodes right and that's starting to fit into a model that Hollywood can recognize and maybe a Netflix can recognize and go like should we just buy nebula Dropout the second Tri Library the side plus library and if all these Creator audiences want their premium content why is that not just available over here. I think it's inevit I don't think any of these streamers thought that YouTube and independent creators would be able to eventually make content that rivaled theirs. I'm sure they were surprised and

then they got used to the fact that, of course, they're taking attention away from us. But I don't think they probably anticipated the level of content, whether it's YouTube creators putting it out on their own channel or putting it behind some of these pay walls, yeah, like you're talking about. And I think what's going to have to happen is that a company like Netflix, if they really want to increase the amount of content they have for their ad tier, they have to probably lower some of the restrictions and guidelines about what can be on Netflix, right? Because creators have made things for streamers before, but it's just been like a pain in the ass for creators, or it doesn't come out looking and feeling like what the Creator would have wanted or what the communities around these creators would expect. So I think that's what's gonna happen, whether it's Netflix or another streamer, again, opening up this Creator tier or Creator plus type program where they do allow certain creators to upload content to their

platform. Yeah, I think to be in the ads business, they're going to have to do that because I don't miss opening Netflix on a week-to-week basis. Yeah, I just don't. I can go weeks without opening. There's not enough new stuff, but I don't go weeks without opening YouTube and Spotify. I barely go days without opening those two apps, and because those two apps have the character that I would miss if they weren't in my life. And at the end of the day, if it's about talking to your IRL friends about what's happening, yeah, you're not getting that right now from Netflix, right? Like, there's no expectation that you're going to open Netflix and you're going to watch something that your friends are already talking about, right? Like, seldom. It's few and far between that that's happening. But when you go on to YouTube, you already know you're going to watch things people are talking about. Yeah, it's interesting to think about Instagram as a, you know, content platform for that where it's like it

conversation is the medium there, like dming someone a clip is the medium. But I think about like who's going to win, like do you know the concept of a third place? You ever heard that concept? So the concept of a third place comes from this sociologist, Ry something, Ray Aldenberg. And the concept is like we have our first place, which is home, our second place, which is work, and then we all need a third place. Oftentimes, that's like a coffee shop that you go to, right? That's like a new environment, social environment, or it could be you joining like a pickleball league or something like that. That's like your third place. And I think the third place is increasingly becoming like digital environments where you go home and like you like. I think YouTube is a lot of people's third place with an Apple Vision Pro headset. Yeah, once you get into VR, it's like too real. But I do think that people go home, work, Ludwig's streaming room, or everyone's

third space is lwig or kaat right. It's like homework, and now the Hassan biker stream is up, and now I'm in my third place. That's why streamers are so right. That's why streamers are so impactful, and I think this is potentially some people's third place in long-form podcast. Yeah, in long-form podcast, my third place for sure. Yeah, I would, and you're more likely to get that on YouTube than Netflix. Like, Netflix is more of a keep-your-eyes-on-the-screen experience. That's basically what I'm saying is that Netflix is not, I don't think Netflix is anyone's third place. Like, I don't think you're coming home and you're like, I just need Netflix on to like experience. Before the rise of YouTube on connected TV, I think it was getting there. Like, the whole Netflix and chill even mantra was like, Oh, of course, like, what would be on your TV except for Netflix? Yeah, and that's why Netflix and Peacock and whoever else are spending so much money on old shows, on Friends, on

the office to on suits to get that like I W I just watched suits in three months for three months Netflix was was my third place now it's over though and that's the problem. There's nothing else on Netflix that I want to watch but I believe that sure like you know of Ryan Tran you know of Michelle car but I think there's a lot of Netflix viewers who don't know these people and I think you could surface 10 of their episodes yeah as a season and people would be like wow this is really great. You may have to like Q see it and change some things so it doesn't feel native specifically to YouTube but I think you could and there would be a lot of new people who are like finding out about Michelle car for the first time and accept it and they're like this Show's great. The great thing about Michelle car the great thing about Cleo Abram is that they're making shows and I think to think about like how do creators prep themselves for this moment in time where

these two platforms are competing. There's this weird convergence event. There's a lot of opportunity that's about to emerge, and I do think it's the creators who have deep catalogs of bingeable formats. That's a reality, right? Like when you think about The Office, like Scott talked about. The Office is this massive catalog, and that you can just dive into, and it can become your third place for a bit. It can become this experience of discovery of a large catalog. And so, Michelle with Challenge Accepted or Cleo with Huge of True, like continuing to build into a catalog that is probably 20 minutes plus each episode, that has a similar framework to each episode, that could be watched 10 episodes in a row. Like, I think that's a really interesting space for a lot of creators right now. Conversely, do you think that YouTube should get back into the premium content game, paying for content like YouTube Red, YouTube Originals? I don't think so. I think the challenge is, but more people are watching on TV now. I

think no. I think, uh, I think YouTube needs to think more in the direction of, like, how to support us as they get deeper into subscriptions. Again, is there any reason why Side Plus should be, like, a separate website? If Side Plus is going to be successful in work, and most of the Sidemen's content is on YouTube, how is that not a YouTube subscription offering, right? Like, H, how is that not built in the environment? So, I think premium content can work, but it's really nice when it's self-sustaining, and when something like Side Plus can work, or something like Second Try can work, but why are those built separate websites? I think that's my question, is like, if YouTube wants to get into the subscriptions business, creators are building successful subscription businesses, how is that not something that's getting solved? I think YouTube should be supporting creators in making premium work, but I don't think it should be behind any sort of paywall, and I don't think it should be the YouTube Red.

YouTube's original model, which was like, Let's take our creators and make something totally different that they don't make, yeah, right, and put it, drop it on their channel. I think we should look at the creators who are already making this premium-level work. I'll bring up Michelle again with Challenge Accepted. Can we, can YouTube come to a creator like her and provide the support she needs to go week to week or to be a lot more consistent? Part of week to week, by the way, is seasons, yeah, like, but you know what I'm saying, though. I'm not saying, like, Let's make a totally new premium show. Let's support the creators who are already making this work that, like, are being nominated for daytime Emmys and things like this. Like, can we go in and support them to be consistent, to be more consistent, to be more consistent? So, I have a question to you. Is YouTube an existential threat for Hollywood, or is it actually a necessity? Because I do think the discovery component is really interesting. Like, as we were researching

this episode we found articles where there's multiple streamers like Disney. You know, there was the quote that said, In almost every Disney executive meeting, YouTube comes up. And the reality is, like, if you're launching new IP, a new franchise, if you're launching something brand new in your Disney, you kind of need YouTube to find audience and let people know about it. It's like a major discovery platform, and so it is complimentary to Hollywood in a lot of ways. You look at, like, Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman to promote Deadpool and Wolverine. They're all over YouTube. Yeah, their Hot Ones episode did like 16 million views. Like, they are all over the platform to promote their movie. So, YouTube is an absolute necessity for Hollywood. Yeah, I agree with you. I think the article you brought up takes it a step further, though. It's not just talking about how Disney talks about utilizing YouTube. It talks about the model of YouTube. It says in strategic meetings they have considered adding user-generated content to Disney+.

though it's not on the immediate road map. Yeah, like that. That's looking. That's being a subscription streamer and going, um, see what YouTube's doing over here. Yeah, maybe we should add user-generated content. Like, that's what we're talking about. But it's so interesting when you say that you can't. Disney can't make a deal with YouTube. Disney would have to make a deal with YouTube creators. Yeah, right. Like, they would have to call the creators and be like, can we license your content? What's wrong with that? Or does that get brokered eventually via YouTube? I don't know if it gets brokered via YouTube. I think it gets brokered by the agents and managers of these creators. Like, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, like, what would you do if Netflix came to us and was like, hey, we would like to license your back catalog of these 25 episodes. What do you mean? What would I? Like, what would you? Would you be interested in that? Yeah, of course I would be. Yeah, of course you'd be.

interested in a totally new audience. That's great, like, yeah, and if it's good content for Netflix, nothing wrong with that. Like, I think that is the future. Netflix is doing this to an extent right now in the kids' sector. Look at CoComelon. There's a Netflix version of CoComelon. There's a YouTube version of CoComelon. Look at PJ Masks, another really popular kids' show. It's an E1 show, but it also has live-action PJ Mask content on YouTube that does millions of views. So, I think the future of content for Netflix could be how do we make content? How do we become more YouTube in the sense that, like, we have our premium level of content on our platform, but then we have other formats of the same content or in the same universe of that content that exist on YouTube and get a lot more views, and they're just not that different. Like, the difference between CoComelon on Netflix and CoComelon on YouTube is not drastic. Like, you, you, you know this.

personally, no. I'm just like, yeah, like, it's the same type of stuff. B. Coco melon watcher, big-time Coco melon fan. But no, like, seriously, like, a lot of the content, it's just like what? It's animated kids' content, yeah, at varying lengths. It looks very similar. Like, I think the same thing will be happening throughout all different types of creators, yeah. Okay, now we are officially in the deep end. Yes, we are in the deep end. To start this off, have you heard about Netflix house? No, is that like hype house? No, you would think so, but it's not. It is essentially like the reinvention of the mall. It's like the mall meets Netflix's Disney World. What? It's like, okay, so it's a physical location, okay? Essentially like a Netflix mall, and if you're watching, I'll put this image, this rendering on the screen right now. It is like a Netflix mall where you can interact with their franchises and some of their experiences. Like, you know how Netflix, even in LA, experiments with things all the time, or you can go to like the

Netflix event around Halloween and like see their characters and go into like a magical world. No, it's just me. Okay, I went. I don't know what you're talking about. It was actually a lot of fun. You went to that. You went to the Netflix haunted house. I did. Yeah, I did. Pop-ups for popular. Yeah, pop-ups are popular. It's like the ice cream museum. Yes, exactly. I don't get out of the house much, so I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, well, all I'm saying is it's pretty interesting here that Netflix is going like the Disney route of like, Let's have physical, essentially malls, theme parks just for our characters, our IP, and our brand. That's something I don't see YouTube doing. No, ever. No. I think, though, that Netflix should be using YouTube to extend their IP further. That's a way they can think of YouTube strategically. That's a good point. I mean, you think about like Scott being, you know, part of The Walking Dead universe and talking about Talking Dead. Like, in the future, there could be talk show compliments to

Major franchises. I mean, I think about right now, like Love Island seems to dominate conversation on social, right, when it comes to TV IP. There was a talk show that talked about maybe there are. There are, I know. Well, first off, Love Island has After Sun. I don't know what that is. Game of Thrones had different shows on the platform itself, on HBO. Okay, okay. So, I just, they don't work as well because they're not creators. That's the thing that YouTube has going. So, if it's like Broski, I guess it already exists. It already exists because everyone on YouTube can talk about Love Island or the guest can go on the shows. But the After Sun, which is Love Island's specific talk show that comes like every four episodes, it's just on Hulu. So, you watch three episodes and then you get an episode of the After Sun. That sounds overproduced already. It is. Those are the best episodes of those shows. Like, Love is Blind, the best shows are the reunions. It's like all the

editorial content. Do you think if Netflix did like a dating show, like a love island with all YouTube creators, it would probably be like a major show, right? I don't think you could make love Island any better than it already is. All right, got it. That's my hot take. I think it's the perfect show. Love Island UK, what I'm talking about. The bottom line for me is like I truly, I always knew we were going to get here, but I can't believe we're here. And I think the next five years, how this all plays out with us as the new producers of content on the most competitive streaming app now, is just such a fascinating world of opportunity. And how we frame ourselves, how we recognize that we are week-to-television now. We are here to be consistent and be a part of audiences' lives on a regular basis, um, and to be the characters in their world. That has completely reframed how I think about all of this. And uh, I I'm just like I

think this conversation is interesting. I don't think it's the last time we're going to be talking about this. I'm very curious to hear all of your thoughts on the world of Netflix versus YouTube. Thanks to Scott Gimple again for coming on the show. If you're watching or listening right now and you want to hear our full conversation with Scott, it will be on Spotify on our RS feed. You can go there. We'll put the link in the description, and you can listen to that conversation. Also, thanks to Hot Take Dave for joining us in the deep end and giving a stop. No, that's strike two. Strike two again. If you've been watching, strike three. If you've been watching, were we doing Collective strike? We doing Collective strikes? Yeah, that's three strikes. Then I think that's three strikes. Yeah, all right. Goodbye forever then. All right. Make sure you subscribe to the channel, and we will see you next week. [Music] Oh.

How YouTube accidentally beat Netflix

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