초결정론 논쟁: 숨겨진 변수와 물리학의 과제

### 초결정론에 대한 논쟁: 사비나 호센펠더의 입장 분석하기
* 🧠 이 논의는 얽힌 입자의 특성이 측정 설정에 따라 달라진다는 개념인 **초결정론**을 중심으로 진행되며, 물리성에 대한 전통적인 관점에 도전합니다.
* 🤔 비평가들은 초결정론이 제안하는 **숨겨진 변수에 대한 명확한 이론적 틀이 부족**하여 타당한 과학적 이론으로 받아들이기 어렵다고 주장합니다.
* 📊 노벨상을 수상한 실험을 통해 입자의 물리적 특성이 측정의 영향을 받는다는 사실이 확인되면서 **"측정이라는 행위가 물성을 존재하게 한다"**는 개념으로 이어졌습니다.
* 🔍 달을 촬영하는 비유는 **초결정론이 카메라 설정에 따라 달의 속성이 달라진다**는 것을 의미하는데, 이는 많은 사람이 직관적이지 않다고 생각합니다.
* 📉 힉스 입자와 같이 명확한 예측과 매개변수가 있는 기존 이론과 달리 **초결정론은 구체적인 숨겨진 변수를 제시하지 못하기 때문에 과학적 설명이라기보다는 자리 표시자에 가깝습니다.**
* 📄 사비나 호센펠더는 자신의 작업에서 숨겨진 변수를 파악했다고 주장했지만 **비평가들은 그녀의 모델이 개연성이 부족**하고 현실보다 환상에 가깝다고 주장합니다.
* 🔬 호센펠더는 미리 정해진 숨겨진 변수 없이도 결과를 도출할 수 있는 실험을 제안했지만, **실험의 위조가 불가능한 특성**으로 인해 과학적 타당성에 대한 우려가 제기되었습니다.
* ⚖ 궁극적으로 이 논쟁은 물리학에서 현실과 측정의 본질에 대한 광범위한 철학적 논의를 반영하며, **지지자와 비판자는 각자의 견해를 확고하게 고수**하고 있습니다.

초결정론은 사빈 호센펠더의 주장처럼 신뢰할 수 있는 숨겨진 변수가 부족하여 과학적 타당성을 약화시킵니다.

there isn't even the beginning of a theoretical account of what the necessary hidden variables might be. Sabine and nobody else is telling us what the hidden variables are, and that's the core of physics. I mean, that's how physics is done now. Another person that

um, who hasn't conceded uh any any ground at least to to my knowledge to your criticisms of her work is uh past guest on this show Sabina Hossenfelder. Uh many of her channel audiences subscribe to this channel and are

probably listening right now. Um so you wrote an article back in early earlier this year called "The Fantasy Behind Sabina Hossenfelder's Superdeterminism." Uh and then you had a debate uh with my good friend Kurt Jongle as

the as the mediator moderator however you want to call it. I I personally think debates are almost pointless but uh because very few people come away changed from their original perspective. They get reified and and and more sunk cost into their original philosophy. But first would you mind describing uh the

the the notion of superdeterminism and and perhaps steel Manning or in this case steel womaning uh Sabina's position uh and why she believes what she believes. What's accurate about that and then um why you guys have this continuing uh kind of uh

friendly but but dispute nonetheless. So first of all, what is superdeterminism in your uh mind? What does it mean to you? What's wrong with it? And then what's right about Sabina's uh interpretation as a steel womaning uh attempt? Yeah, a

lot there how still woman it yeah because a lot of people do present superdeterminism in a way that is not what Sabina is trying to get you to put forward some people confuse superdeterminism for instance with an argument against free will and that goes way further than it

needs to go for superdeterminism to to make some sense the claim is the following in experiments with entangled particles we know statistically now and this has won the Nobel Prize in physics this year after 40 years of experimental confirmation we know that the physical

properties that we measure on a particle the properties that define what the particle is the properties that define physicality such as angular momentum which is a popular one in this kind of experiments those properties are are a function a function of the experimental setup in other words what you what you

see about a particle depends on what you choose to measure about another particle entangled with the first one so the particles don't don't seem to have a prior physical properties their physical properties seem to arise from from measurement and it it seems to be that

the act of measurement it's what brings physicality into existence which I think is correct by the way now in an attempt to try to save physicality to say no no there were physical particles there before if you say that then you have to explain why everything unfolds as if the

act of measurement determines the physical properties and the way to go about it in superdeterminism is to say that there are hidden variables uh in the the particles and the detectors that establish a causal chain in the act of measurement whereby the setup of the measurement

apparatus causally changes the particle in a non-local way or even uh yeah it would have to be a non-local way now why do I think this is baloney why do I think this is a fantasy for a number of reasons one of them is to try

to bring the assumptions that have to be made at the microscopical level microscopic level try to bring them into a level that we can relate to with our intuition what super determinism requires is equivalent to the following suppose you take your camera and you want to

photograph the moon at night and then you set your aperture and you set your exposure time in your camera and you point the camera to the moon and you photograph it what super determinism would say in this analogy is that what the moon is the physical properties of

the Moon such as its perimeter its mass whatever are a function of the aperture and the exposure time in your camera so if you would set your camera differently to a different aperture at a different exposure time then the moon would be different that's what is required U I

think that is not intuitive it's a it's a rather extraordinary hypothesis but to make it worse there isn't even the beginning of a theoretical account of what the necessary hidden variables might be Sabine and nobody else is telling us what the hidden variables are

and that's the core of physics I mean that's how physics is done when when Peter Higgs uh first proposed the Higgs boson back in the 60s he gave us a full well fairly complete characterization he told us I expect it to be found in this

energy range, I expect it to decay into these and these particles because nobody has ever measured the Higgs directly. It decays before it interacts with an experiment, any measurement surface, so you have to know what it decays into in order to reconstruct the event and be

able to say there was a Higgs in there. He also told us coherently how the Higgs boson plays its role, how it leads to inertia in other words, to to to mass, uh uh, by means of the Higgs field, that sticky

field that prevents things from moving at the speed of light all the time. So we had a complete map of what to look for when we started looking for it back in 1994, and I know because I was there when the the the the ATLAS experiment was

proposed and and approved. Uh, we knew what we were looking for, we knew where to look and how to look, but there is no such thing for the hidden variables of superdeterminism. They are just a placeholder and as such an expression of faith. The faith is there has to be

something. God knows what that does. God knows how what needs to be done for us to be able to hold on to our prejudice that physical entities have standalone existence and they're not epiphenomenal. I don't think that's good science, and in

that debate, as Zina told to my face that she had she had determined what the hidden variables are, that she had published a paper saying what the hidden variables are, and when I looked at the paper, it was a toy model. In other words, those were the hidden variables of a

fantasy universe, not hidden variables that are plausible or tenable in any way in this universe. So know that the hidden variables are just a placeholder for fantasies and wishful thinking as of this time. And to her credit, she did propose one experiment that, in principle, 

doesn't need the hidden variables to be determined in advance. It doesn't matter what they are, the experiment could produce a relevant outcome either way. The problem is, and I don't know how much detail you want to get here, um, that experiment uh is non-falsifiable in 

other words, because we don't know what the hidden variables are, once the experiment produces a negative result, we you can always say, well, it's it just is not accurate enough. We didn't repeat the measurement fast enough uh to to account for entropy or anything else. So it's not 

it will never be a conclusive experiment because it cannot falsify the hypothesis that motivated it to begin with. So I don't think that's productive either.

Bernardo Kastrup: Sabine Hossenfelder is WRONG About Superdeterminism!

Dr Brian Keating

초결정론에서 필요한 숨겨진 변수에 대한 이론적 설명이 부족합니다.

초결정론에 대한 사비나 호센펠더의 입장에 대해 토론합니다.

초결정론에 대한 기사 언급 및 토론.

관점을 바꾸는 데 있어 토론의 비효율성.

현재 진행 중인 분쟁과 그 우호적인 성격에 대한 설명.

초결정론과 그 비판에 대한 설명

초결정론에 대한 일반적인 오해, 특히 자유 의지와 관련된 오해에 대해 설명합니다.

얽힌 입자의 측정된 특성이 실험 설정에 따라 달라진다는 실험적 증거를 보여줍니다.

숨겨진 변수를 도입하여 물리성을 절약하려는 시도입니다.

초결정론의 숨겨진 변수가 측정의 인과 관계를 확립한다는 명제.

초결정론에 대한 유추와 추가 비판

초결정론의 의미를 설명하기 위해 달을 촬영하는 비유를 들어 설명합니다.

숨겨진 변수에 대한 이론적 설명이 부족하다는 비판이 있습니다.

힉스 입자 발견과 비교하여 이론적 완성도의 차이를 강조합니다.

초결정론은 자리 표시자와 희망적 사고에 의존하기 때문에 비과학적이라는 비판을 받습니다.

제안된 실험과 그 한계에 대한 분석

사비나 호센펠더가 장난감 모델에 속하는 숨겨진 변수를 제안한 것에 대한 비판.

미리 결정된 숨겨진 변수가 필요하지 않은 실험에 대한 언급입니다.

실험의 위조 불가능성에 대한 비판.

실험에서 가설을 결정적으로 테스트할 수 없는 이유에 대한 설명.