As you mentioned, some of your best films, in some way, remind me of the ending. It's like, interesting, too.

Okay, that's so... I like it. Now you're right. Wow, you're pointing out all the films I probably subconsciously ripped...

[Music] off for... for [Music] Hi! It's an honor to have you here.

I'm someone from Korea, and actually, *Anura* was wide-released in Korea yesterday, and yes, I...

wanted to tell you this is an amazing, amazing movie. I really loved it.

Oh, thank you so much! So I have tons of questions to ask,

so let me start with... So your journey as a film director started in New York. You went to NYU to make an... indie film, and...

your early films were set in New York, and then you moved to LA and Orlando, Texas. So how does it feel to make a movie back

Oh, it's great. Um, I always consider myself a New Yorker, even though, you know, I've lived in Los

Angeles now for about 14 years, but spent most of my life in New York. And New York

is the country's melting pot. It's so alive with different communities and cultures, so I could shoot there forever

Yeah. And uh, where I just shot, which was Brighton Beach in Coney Island, this was an area

that um, I wanted to explore. It's culturally rich, it's visually exciting, and I had just shot a fashion film in

the area for a small boutique label called Kate. It was almost an homage to Walter Hill's *The Warriors*, which was shot

in Coney Island in 1978. So I think it was shooting that fashion film that reinstilled my place in Coney Island and...

Yeah, there are some marvelous shots there.

So thank you. Next, I'm going to ask you about... You've always paid attention...

to the underrepresented communities, like from Chinese immigrants and takeout, and transgender ladies and homeless people living in motels, your Disney World, and of course

sex workers. Yet your characters in your film look so real, like the real neighbors in our daily lives. And I wonder

how you do your research. I mean, of course you've done a lot of extensive research, but not only that, I

think you actually entered their communities and became friends with them. So how do you build friendships with them?

What's the magic? Oh, thanks. Um, to tell you the truth, it's really just about time—taking the time, spending the

time. You know, in my research process, which is also part of writing. In order to write a good script that's accurate

and will speak to the community in the right way, meaning representation, um, you gotta know it. You gotta, and so you have

to immerse yourself, especially if you're from outside of a community that you're focusing on. And my goal is always to make a film that will first and foremost please the community that I'm focusing on. I want them to be happy with the

representation, and that just takes—it literally takes time. I have to understand that world. You know, um, this

one, 'Hadora,' had more to do with actually our consulting with sex workers, um, and understanding the world of, you

know, uh, erotic dancers, um, and less to do with—I didn't do as much research into the Russian-American world because

you know, it was more about—it was already New Yorkers. And plus, I had, you know, Kent Kulan—as your F—yeah, Ken Kulan—

and and others on the film that had those connections to the world already, so they were my passports. Yeah. And let's

move to 'Anura.' In the early parts of 'Anura,' we can see many scenes about Annie working as a sex worker in her club.

I think you try hard not to romanticize or victimize her job or herself. So what are the principles that you have in your

mind when you're filming her working? Like, I think it's it's as simple as just objectively showing it and showing all

the different aspects of it, even showing the mundane and showing the menial side of things. Essentially, I wanted the movie

to begin as a labor movie. I wanted the audience to think they were just watching that first five minutes before

Annie meets Yvonne. I wanted them to think, "Oh, is this is Shawn giving us another takeout? Is Sean giving us

another 'Prince of Broadway'?" You know, perhaps I could have just spent the whole hour and a half with with Annie at

that club just to show the real ins and outs. But obviously, I was planning on having a plot kick in. Um, but but my

approach was the same: an objective take, something that actually shows uh details that you could only know from being

inside that world. And that's where we got a lot of information from our consultants and also Mikey and us

spending time in that club and really observing. And and Mikey herself even shadowed some of the dancers, meaning

followed some of the dancers and really got to really observe and and and understand the mechanics of that world.

Yeah, and one of my favorite shots in this movie is like Annie dozing off in the subway. Like, yeah, it's so real, like

we can see her mundaneness and her hardship and tiredness. Yeah, I can remember that.

Let's move to the actors. You've been known for like bringing some random people or pedestrians into your movies, and I think I

actually felt that in the Vegas scene. I noticed that some people were watching the camera there. So what is your thought about

Your approach, and also in Anurag, this is the first time that all leading actors are professional actors in your

filmography, I guess. So what are the differences this time? Well, we definitely—because my films are grounded in reality and have

sort of a social realist approach—sometimes it really helps in terms of the style to, uh, approach certain scenes

in a docu-style, sort of blurring the line between documentary filmmaking and and fiction narrative filmmaking. And

what I mean by that is taking my actors and throwing them into real situations. So, yeah, in Vegas, sometimes they

were walking the floor—a live floor, meaning we didn't control it—they were walking past real patrons of the casino.

So those real patrons might look at the camera and make eye contact with the camera and be like, "What's going on?" And I

love that stuff because, even though it might break the fourth wall, it's like we have people looking at the camera. I

think it actually adds to the realism because, subconsciously, to the audience, they're like, "Oh, this must be

real." You know, people are acknowledging a camera's presence. Um, you know, back to what you talked about with the subway

car, the subway car was actually the first shot we shot of the film, and I remember it was kind of, to be quite

honest and transparent, we stole that shot, meaning we just took our cameras and Mikey and, just at dawn, went on the

subway, shot the shot, and got off and just did it. Um, that realism comes across, that spontaneity, that the fact that

we're in the real world comes across. And then, answering your question regarding the use of seasoned professional actors,

yes, um, because I—this film was more plot-driven, and there really wasn't a lot of time to play around. Um, I love working

with first-time actors, but I couldn't depend on having to train a new actor; there's a learning curve, obviously, and

so in this case, all of my actors had years of experience. You know, Mikey is approaching her 10th year in the

industry. She's been on a show called "Better Things," and of course, you know her from "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood."

Yeah, so she comes with 10 years; most of my cast comes with, oh, about 10 years

of acting. So that was incredible for me because they brought me so many ideas; they had variations on all of

their performances, really understanding the mechanics of filmmaking. So, I'll give you an example, and then

we can move on. But like the home invasion scene, it takes place in real time, and I can't have any continuity

errors. Well, one of the wonderful things about a seasoned professional actor is that they understand that they always have to repeat actions to help out the

editor. So, you know, if in one take we have an actor putting a glass down to the right, on the second take they should

also put the glass down on the right. You know, when you're working with a first-timer, that glass could end up anywhere.

You know, it makes my job much tougher in post-production. But, and not only that, I think my actors were very focused on

motivation and intent, and I was able to spend a lot of time with them, especially Mikey, really talking about the ins and

outs of her character, knowing that the audience will never hear her thoughts or know her backstory. You had to feel

like this character was lived-in and three-dimensional, uh, just through her, basically just her in-the-moment

performance. And that took a lot of discussion and preparation. As you mentioned, Mikey, like she was really—she was stunning, and I

I've heard that you mentioned that you like the director Lee Chang-dong from Korea. Yes, maybe it's my misreading, but

I can see some relationship between Annie and Igor as a relationship between the two leading actors of *Secret Sunshine*, especially Igor.

I would just want to ask what components or parts of Lee Chang-dong's movies resonate with you. You know, I, as you know, I'm a cinephile; I watch a lot, and I think I

absorb a lot, and sometimes the stuff that I love subconsciously comes through my work, and sometimes I don't even

recognize it for years. So you basically just told me that maybe there is a connection with *Secret Sunshine*. I have to rewatch it; maybe there is. I'm guilty of that sometimes, you know.

So they're almost subconscious homages, subconscious nods. Um, but I think just in general, Chang-dong Lee, for

me, he gives—I think they're just basically characters we don't see on screen often. You know, he's giving love stories

to characters that often aren't given love stories by mainstream film and TV. You know, the fact that he embraces

characters who are, you know, sometimes not embraced by society or sometimes have tremendous flaws—but it's okay;

it's still treating them with dignity and seeing them as human, three-dimensional. So I think that's the

main connection. I don't know if there were any direct, you know, conscious references to any of his work in my film

on this one, but again, it could be a subconscious thing. I don't mean to blame you or something; I think

Yeah, well, I've been trying my best to avoid spoilers, but I just have to ask about the ending.

The scene, like, indirectly... yeah, it leaves such a profound resonance and makes me question the complexity and hardship of people, and the dignity of human beings.

I heard you've always planned out your ending scenes before writing your previous scripts, including *Florida* product. How did you approach this?

Well, um, I like what you said because that's essentially how I designed the ending. I wanted it to be left up for interpretation, so what you just said was really great. Um, yes, and in this case, it was very early on, before I wrote the screenplay, because I always need to at least understand where my characters are going. I need to see how the—I need to know how the story will wrap up, and I also need to know exactly how the last scene will play out because I consider the ending scenes to be the most important part of cinematic storytelling.

It's how you'll leave the audience; it's what they will be left with as they are leaving the theater; it's what they'll probably be discussing. Um, also, I think that films that allow the audience to do some of the thinking and actually do some of the heavy lifting...

Sometimes I don't want to—again, I don't want to spoil the ending right now, but I do want to say that the audience is—is asked to do a little work, and I think that that's important because it engages an audience and respects an audience. I know my favorite films often have semi-open-ended endings, because, you know, uh, life keeps going on. Life keeps going on; nothing is perfectly tied up with a bow, to tell you the truth.

I think that's part of my approach to this entire film, because the Hollywood version of this film would have her living happily ever after. Nobody lives happily ever after. I mean...

Even if things work out beautifully and you meet your prince charming, I'm sure you know a couple of weeks down the line,

you might have a bad day or two. You know, we're all going to hit obstacles in our lives, and we're all

인생의 스승을 만나다 | 올해 아카데미상 5관왕 [아노라] 션 베이커 감독 인터뷰

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