아혹의 다면적인 정치적 입장과 능력주의 옹호

### 아혹의 다면적인 인터뷰: 정치에서 개인적 성장까지
* 🎭 정치인에서 전 지역 지도자, **조코위와 프라보워 두 사람 모두와 친분**이 있는 사람에 이르기까지 다양한 역할을 맡은 아혹의 이야기를 들어보세요.
* 🧠 그는 리더십에서 능력주의의 중요성을 강조하며 **가족의 약국과 공장에 대한 개인적인 일화**를 들려줍니다.
* 💻 아혹은 최근의 논란에 대해 언급하며 **데이터 유출의 심각성**과 **정부 기관의 적절한 채용의 필요성**을 강조합니다.
* 🌏 그는 에너지 및 식량 위기와 같은 글로벌 과제를 강조하며 이러한 문제를 해결하는 데 있어 **능력주의의 중요성**을 강조합니다.
* 🏙 아혹은 자카르타의 현 행정부를 평가하며 개선이 필요한 부분을 지적하고 **곧 칼리만탄으로 수도를 이전할 계획**에 대해 논의합니다.
* 🍚 사회 문제에 대한 실질적인 해결책을 제시하는 Ahok은 **식량 안보와 교육 문제를 해결하기 위한 혁신적인 접근 방식**을 제안합니다.
* 👨 아혹은 자신의 개인적인 성장을 되돌아보며 **감옥에서의 시간과 마코브리몹 참여**가 어떻게 자제력을 키우고 미래의 도전에 대비하는 데 도움이 되었는지 이야기합니다.
* 🗳 정치적 미래에 대해 아혹은 자카르타에서 현재 맡고 있는 역할에 전념하고 있으며, **후보자 선택에 있어 정당 원칙의 중요성**을 강조하고 있습니다.

### 아혹의 정치적 견해와 향후 계획
* 🏛 아혹은 단순히 자리를 추구하는 것이 아니라 **당의 이념을 대중에게 알리는 것**이 중요하다고 강조합니다.
* 🔍 자카르타 주지사 선거에서 **조코위 대통령의 아니스 바스웨단 지지 가능성**을 비롯한 정치적 역학 관계에 대해 이야기합니다.
* 👥 아혹은 리더가 국민을 위해 봉사하는 데 있어 **공감과 경험**을 갖춰야 한다고 강조합니다.
* 🏢 그는 **페르타미나의 CEO로서의 경험**과 **리더십의 능력주의에 대한 견해**를 공유합니다.
* 🤝 아혹은 조코위와 프라보워와의 관계를 회상하며 **프라보워와 오랫동안 연락을 하지 않았다고 말합니다.**
* 🇮🇩 이 대화에서는 **군소 정당의 부상 가능성과 연합에 미치는 영향** 등 정치 전략에 대해 다룹니다.
* 🌄 아혹은 수라바야와 발리에서 주지사가 되고 싶다는 농담을 건네며 **앞으로의 계획**을 암시합니다.
* 🏌 그는 감사를 표하며 **골프와 같은 개인적인 관심사에 집중**하고 싶다는 말로 마무리합니다.

다양한 역할을 맡은 정치인인 아혹은 현재 정치 이슈에서 능력주의와 개인 데이터 보호의 중요성을 강조했습니다.

What's clear is that Ahok, I invited him to Mata Najwa now, in many capacities as a politician, as a former regional leader, as someone who was close to Jokowi in the past, and as someone who is still unfinished, not yet finished, and as a former member of Prabowo's team who used to be very close with Pak Jokowi, now they are not close anymore. That's serious, right? I said that, I don't know if it's serious or not. I'm still stuck here, then I asked Bu Mega again, If that's the case, can I still meet Pak Jokowi? If I do meet Pak Jokowi, what should we talk about now? That's what I asked Bu Mega. Pak Prabowo, after the surgery yesterday, why did he send greetings? I have no contact. Is it true that there's no contact with Prabowo since the beginning? There has never been any, maybe this is the correct Asian value. He said, What's wrong? Which one? Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, thank you for coming to Mata Najwa. You have to come, if you don't come, you will be disappointed again. We have been talking for a long time, the last time was 3 years ago, if I'm not mistaken, we used online, right? Online during the pandemic. I remember being healthy, even healthier now than

Now, the main job is playing golf. It's not just playing golf, actually, it's a self-control therapy. So, there is a philosophy behind playing golf, it's a therapy. Yes, so when people ask me if I still play golf, no, I'm into walking and self-control therapy. So now, I'm not getting angry anymore, I'm more in control. At least, for example, if I give this example, if this drink is white, and you say it's tea, but I see it's water, we would have argued before. Oh, you clearly said it's tea, right? We could have argued for hours. But now, I'm just relaxed. Oh, I'm sorry, to my taste buds, it's water. If you think it's tea, that's fine, we're done. So now, it's not until it gets crowded, not until it gets crowded, not until it gets noisy, not until it gets more diplomatic, that's for sure. I invited you to Matanjua now, in many capacities, as a politician, as a former regional head, as someone who used to be close to Jokowi, as I suspected, and it's not finished yet, not finished yet, and as a former subordinate of Prabowo. So, there are many hats, the politician's hat for 20 years, so there are four hats tonight. Oh, but we want to talk about

The difficult thing is to have a conversation about the current trending issues these days because there are so many. Honestly, what creates a lot of controversies, and among those controversies, there are a lot that really get people worked up. I want to get into the concrete issue, oh, the trending issue about how data breaches are happening nowadays. I'll cut this part. So, there's this guy, Oneng, who sent everything... what is it? What did I say? I just mentioned asking for a budget increase, they said. Is it easy to just change the narrative like that? There are over 160 extras. Are hackers working alone? Usually, hackers have a team, right? Now, the question is, if one person says they want to give the key, will the others get mad or not? This is a logic we don't know, not accusing, right? Then, the second point, if someone confesses to damaging the country, but then apologizes and steps back, it can't be forgiven, right? And there's this saying, G, but in the end, Ma asks for a budget increase. So, should they be arrested or not? It's different. No, because whoever it is or whoever said sorry and stepped back, the minister is the hacker and they haven't done it yet. That's why, for me, it's not necessary, it's not important for me. Don't underestimate personal data. It's not

Now, this is not about loving the country, I don't know if you can guess what I mean by meritocracy. It can't recruit people without a good basis. For me, meritocracy, since I was young, I was taught. For example, the current ministers are not based on that. I'll give you an example. My parents, since I was young, taught me. That's why in my mother's pharmacy, everyone who works there, I'm sorry, wears a hijab. Even though in the past they didn't wear a hijab in the factory when my grandmother wanted me to hire my uncle who happened to be laid off, not laid off with a golden handshake from Jakarta, then he had a failed business and wanted to work in my factory. I called my grandmother. I have a factory in Belitung. I told my grandmother this: my accountant, how about this accountant? This career started from the bottom, a Malay Muslim. But this is your uncle. This is your uncle, right? You should trust your uncle more. But this is about the career path I have arranged for people. If I suddenly put my uncle in the factory, my meritocracy spirit will be destroyed. I might get a little angry. Then I said to my grandmother, If your uncle wants to start a business and needs funding, I'll give him money, but never enter my factory because my factory has a system like that, not based on meritocracy.

Chaos like what is happening now can occur. I think I don't know how to recruit people in the Ministry of Communication and Information (Kominfo). I don't know if this is an internal matter or the top leadership. Because when we talk about the top leadership, it's also noisy and directed towards the top leadership. There is even a petition to ask for resignations, already tens of thousands. But when asked because it's not about petitions, you said tens of thousands represent the people. Yes, if those in power care at all. That's why I say the important issue today is how the people, let me read it. I like Martin Luther King's words. He was an activist who could combine three important words: power, love, and social justice. He said in English, Power without love. And love here is the love for the country. Love for our people. Translate it, it will definitely be ruthless and abusive when having power without love for the country. Love for our people will surely be rough, reckless, and corrupt. But when you have love for the country, love for our people without power, it becomes sentimental and lacks strength. The best position of power is when it is used to implement demands for social justice. And social justice in the best position is when using power to correct everything that goes against love for the country.

The love of the people, well, I'll return the question so that people who judge, is power now used to correct everything that goes against the love of the country, the love of the people today I convey, so the people below are exposed to online gambling, being provoked, no one can control whether it can be turned off easily. It's easy to have a bank account, how can they not know, approximately like that, right? The same question, right? That's why I say, in my opinion, this issue has been happening for centuries, when power is not used to correct everything that goes against the love of the country, the love of the people. Now, for me, do you value meritocracy or not? For me, now the most important thing is how we are facing this global danger, such as energy crisis, food crisis, various challenges, crisis of trust, which require the right people in positions that truly fit meritocracy, one of the requirements. That's why I hope the elected president can certainly find these people, the situation is not easy, the world is not easy right now. We need meritocracy, the system is far more important to me than the terminology used in the past. Dr. Sar likes Dar, whether we curse the darkness, it's better to light a candle, that's why I also think, after I was imprisoned, I learned that if I keep regretting the past, it's useless. That's why for

Talking about this and that now, how do we handle it, bro? Yes, but in the political reality, those issues need to be tackled one by one. To tackle them, we can't just look at the big picture, but we have to involve Ahok, a very detailed person. For example, I said I have a love for the country, love for the people. If you don't have power, it's just sentimental and lacks substance. If I were put in Pertamina, I'm detailed, that's why Ahok made fun of me. This is what I mean, I'm not pretending, disrespectful. I am detailed, I check everything. If you put me as a governor, do you know why I can know it in such detail? I read all the official letters between departments, and sometimes I give instructions. For example, if someone from the Public Works Department wants to build a sidewalk where there is a tree, and asks for permission from the Park Department to move the tree, if there is no response, it means the tree is important. Why should someone hit the tree and not move it? See, when I read this, I can write a position. Is it Cambodia or which country are you from? Then I take a photo, send it to the WhatsApp group, share it in the group on Monday, in the coordination meeting, I already know all the issues in detail because I have the power. So, when we talk about what we

Can appeal to hope that God has allowed Mr. Prabowo to become president, something like that. I am a person who believes that if we use the word trust in power, it is God who gives and God who takes. Even if God gives power to someone, even to ID Amin, or anyone, one must believe that power is given by God. Okay, and as long as Ahok does not have power practically, that's how it is. So, all that can be done is to appeal, to pray. And of course, I also create programs, I create programs, I create programs as an h anything. What is the goal? Education, for me, education. But for example, is there a desire to return to executing instead of just doing education now? For example, I remember I once said I wanted to be the Director-General of Customs because I was annoyed. Oh yes, yes, now there is an opportunity, right? Can I? I'm already old, it's not the Customs anymore. Customs or the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) has few applicants. Let me tell you, why did I see yesterday, Mr. Alex mentioned that in Hong Kong, in Singapore, there is one corruption agency, while in Indonesia, there are three agencies. Sorry, the police can also get upset, there are prosecutors who do not accept their decisions, or there are prosecutors who are upset with police officers who keep going back and

Interested in continuing the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) is also a collective if you want to be interested in becoming the Attorney General, right? If possible, I would say, my name, I would say, let's go back a lot. Can we improve it if we execute it? I said, right? Like the theory of Martin Luther King Jr., if we have love for the country, love for the people, without power, it will definitely be chaotic, right? Or sentimental. Are you now in that sentimental position? I never thought like that. I know when my time has not come, I met my friend in business who said to me, Hey, why don't you invite me to do business? My answer was, What kind of business is it? It's easy. We were asked to be an intermediary by our friends. Everything is already in place. Why are you looking for capital? Everything is set up. The difficult part is like you, you're into trading, it's easy. If you ask me to do it, I can't. What about Ahok, for example, now what does it mean? Ahok is already a politician. Why would you want to stop and become an entrepreneur? Of course, you are someone who can be accepted by some people in our society, and in politics, not everyone with money can be accepted. Okay, if that's the case. Now, I want to ask Ahok as

In my opinion, the administration is a bit problematic, but there are still several PTSP sub-districts that are working well. Some are working well, and the previous forces, actually the red and blue forces, all of that, not just a working force, it is a Vocational Training Center, in my version actually, and it seems that it is not continued or at least not complained about, like garbage is still everywhere. In the past, we really didn't want to see any trash, not even one piece of trash in the river. You can't let even one piece of trash scattered here. If in the past, we really didn't want to see any trash, not even one piece of trash in the river. You can't let even one piece of trash scattered here. The current governor's officials are also under public scrutiny. I think Mr. Heru is a good person. I know him, right? His term is ending soon, and recently I asked where Mr. Heru is more often, preparing for the August 17th event, right? If in the past, the Governor was busy everywhere, there was a deputy who worked, right? There was a deputy clearly, indeed, the position of the Jakarta Governor is criticized by many parties and Jakarta residents, who are critical. I want to show some excerpts of Mr. Heru's statements, which then became popular, for example, those that received a lot of responses from the public, not

How is the anticipation, sir, for the future? Yes, so in my area, there is none. I don't know yet. Still, just sleeping, the river is cleaner. Even if it's dirty, one year I led, maybe the impact from five years ago wasn't taken care of, right? Yes, right. When I arrived, it was dirty. It's not possible that the impact from five years ago was forgotten, right? Not taken care of, right? Now, I am taking care of it. Many people say it's cleaner. Why do you disagree with Mr. Heriru's assessment earlier before he took office in Jakarta? It wasn't taken care of. I think the people of Jakarta will answer later, If it wasn't taken care of, it's like I'm attacking Mr. Anis again. Right? We all, everyone, say that we don't agree. I think there are indeed some parts of the river that were not dredged before. We bought a lot of heavy equipment to wait. There are some that are dirty because of the colorful forces. If the context is not just that, but overall, I think if he says that poor performance will be sent to IKN, I think everyone will be sent to IKN if they have moved. It depends on the career. For civil servants, they have signed wherever they are ready to go. And there are also people who criticize, where should they throw it?

You are optimistic that the IKN will succeed, but I didn't follow it. But when I was at Pertamina, I was very optimistic that it would be fast if we use all Pertamina's work areas and assets because there is already an infrastructure, right? We are not opening new forests, right? If we want to find land, it will be faster. It can have thousands of hectares and all kinds of things. If we just want to become the capital, it will be faster, right? And the fate of Jakarta after the IKN becomes the capital, there won't be any problems. It will still be the capital. There are many smart people in Jakarta, many wealthy people, many buildings. It's better to take care of Jakarta so it won't sink because we keep going down. Whether we like it or not, we have to follow the Dutch way, how to close, how to reclaim, and so on. The position of the capital in Kalimantan will not change the strategic meaning of Jakarta. Yes, I think in the future it will be even better. If we look at Jakarta's design, I was involved with the Minister of Public Works during Mr. SB's time. We had a plan within the city back then. Then I don't know if it was evaluated or not. We had two outer Ring Roads. One of the Ring Roads connects to Sentul, and the next one can even cut through the mountains. Everything connects. In

How should the government help, for example, yesterday I was asked by a friend, Just tell this story. If it's really difficult to get food, how can people who are laid off not eat? How about when someone is sick? Okay, we can handle it, like, How will we eat? I'm just kidding, but I can do it. I said, The government office should instruct vocational high school students to practice making fried rice or fried rice from leftover rice at night because there are many restaurants with leftover rice. Then, keep making fried rice continuously, and write down what food is not available for people to eat. So, if it's always fried rice, the ones who have food will get bored, right? In the morning, afternoon, and evening, it's always fried rice. Then, vocational high school students can practice. We know where to eat. Just open this free lunch. The real one, don't worry about the Ministry, don't worry about the budget, it's not about 71 trillion. I said, if I suggest it, it's a nutritious friend, right? No, this is what they want, it must be diverse, definitely nutritious. Now, let me tell you, a friend asked me if there is a friend who is in the government, and he said, What do you think is the solution? We're confused. Want to regulate lunch in all schools like that. I said, if I were

If he has three children, he will get r50,000. When they are in school, provide a menu. You must have meat and other things. If not, I will withdraw the money. It's better to give the money directly to the mother. Just the mother, then she can save. That's the Ministry's business, and then everyone is happy. Imagine someone who lives modestly getting r50,000 to buy food, meat, and for their grandparents. The father eats, the siblings who are not in school yet eat too. It's simple. If it's like that, maybe those who want to be suppliers won't get a share. That's why Ahok's way, people don't like it. It's practical, what's difficult about it? It can be like that, easy. Okay, give the money to the mother. Right? For example, these are ideas or examples. Is this the one Ahok talked about before, how he felt when he was given a position, eh, as a Governor, he was more prepared. The context is because he already had various ideas. If it's about ideas, I never run out because I have many friends, like A, B, C, so when talking, I get ideas. But why did he say he was more prepared to be a governor back then? Have you ever studied for a Ph.D. at Makobrimov? Are you a graduate of Makobrimov?

Makobrimop, according to Ahok, does not raise but actually lower. I don't talk about price if the price is the power of God's will for people to choose. What I mean is that in it, you learn to control yourself because the most important thing is self-control, which surpasses someone who conquers a city. So, if you become a great General who can conquer a city, you are defeated by someone who can control themselves. That is my weakness. I'll give an example: if in the past he said, This is not tea, it's plain water, I used to argue with you for hours, wasting time like that. But now, I only spend this much time. In it, I learn, and then, well, that becomes one. I say that I have learned a lot from it. People ask, If the world could be turned back, would you want it? If you could avoid the usual things like in movies, right? That time, turn back and avoid it so that you can become a governor, but you also don't fall into vulnerability. That's what I mean. I still say my pH remains the same. Why? Because I will be much more prepared for anything when I can control myself. And is that really what I mean? When I say that, it means being ready if we talk about the current political context that is in front of us, right? Simultaneous regional elections

As a political cadre, I can be assigned anywhere, but as Kak Taman, Mrs. Mea Sayati said, I don't want that, ma'am. Something like that, so I don't want what I told Taman to use this to NTT, to North Sumatra, to Bali, to everywhere. I said, Oh, ma'am, if possible, please don't. My duty, Ma'am, is just to teach in Jakarta. My name appeared on the Jakarta recommendation list, so I can't advance the chair. That's why with the same mindset, friends say, Instead of not progressing, why not advance in North Sumatra? The seats are enough. Then I said, Since the past, it's similar to before in proud Belitung. I gathered ID cards, not in Jakarta. So why not return to Bang to become a governor? I answered, I don't want to be a governor. Why would I want to be a governor? I just want to be a showas. Let me tell you, this is the business model. If you want to manage a city, how should it be done? If you want to manage the people, how should it be done so that there are standards? People shouldn't feel like it's impossible to have Nur who replies to us every morning, afternoon, and evening. We take care of it, then come to the city, and no one helps. It's our

Subject to any decision of the party and currently there is no decision from the party because if we talk about it in Jakarta, it has been decided like this, actually, Bu Mega has asked me, that's why I am teaching. The regional head candidate has received a recommendation letter, so I was asked to teach how to win. But it seems like not as a candidate, right? Earlier, Ahok said he probably wouldn't run as a candidate, but there is another assignment. But if we still focus on that, regarding who will be nominated by PDI Perjuangan, it's clear that Ahok's name was recommended, there was also the name Pras. Mr. Pras was interesting, then there was the name Anis Baswedan, and after that, there were some hints exchanged between them, and Mr. Anis was throwing hints at each other. I want to ask for a response, okay, about that. Mr. Pras was also interesting, stating an attraction to Mr. Anis, also interesting. How to interpret these hints? First, you need to understand the concept of PDI Perjuangan. PDI Perjuangan is a party of cadres since it was founded by Bung Karno, it is an ideological party. So, for a democratic party, it will certainly accommodate from all voters, whoever it may be, that's where Mr. Pras was also included. Mr. Pras was also caught up to

The party will prioritize its own cadre rather than outsiders. I know that in terms of political parties, it's like that, but in realpolitik calculations because there is no single party in Jakarta that can advance alone, they must form a coalition, and maybe in the political bargaining process, there is a give and take, including one of them, PDIP. I don't know what the DPP decision is like, but as far as I know, as a party of cadres, the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDI Perjuangan) never sacrifices its ideological principles for pragmatism. For example, in my case, when my popularity dropped to 70 percent due to being a blasphemy suspect, politically and in terms of PD's study, PDI Perjuangan had to drop me and replace me with Bu Risma, who was briefly featured in Tempo. But for Megawati, she said, Why not Ahok? He's only declining because of public pressure, due to unproven accusations in court. This is Megawati's concept. Then I told her, But if I run, PDI Perjuangan will definitely lose. The trend has dropped, accused of blasphemy, verses are everywhere, it's definitely a loss. Then she said, Being in a party, there must be principles. What does this party's ideology want to be? If Ahok, the incumbent, has done a good job honestly, but

Winning, sir, winning is not about obtaining positions; winning is about successfully educating the people to understand our party's ideology. Mr. Hok, are you aware why our party, which was nurtured by my father, can withstand all the attacks until today? It's because we are a party of cadres with a clear ideology. So, if we are pressured by others and retreat, what will this party become? These are the models that I convey. Therefore, I think issues like this should be consulted with the Central Executive Board, not just by me. However, I have given an approximate idea. Earlier, Mr. Hok mentioned that Tempo magazine's clear tempo is interesting. Tempo even recently published a major report. Not long ago, in the second volume, Jokowi's camp supported Anis Baswedan, which I think is the journalists' right to write, right? They have the right to. The question is not about the issue itself, but whether reading the current political situation these days, there is a possibility. If I go back to 2017, President Jokowi sent Pratikno to meet with Mr. Prabowo. Arif C, if you look at the news, Arif justus said what the journalists asked. Was it to thwart Mr. Anis? Then Arif justus said no, in fact, President Joko supported Mr. Anis so that Ahok wouldn't rise. Approximately like that. Then,

Then the editing came out, Bu Niani said, then Bu Niani said in the meeting, How could I make such edits if not from Gerindra, she said. So, if the news says that Pak Jokowi is blocking Anis, I don't think so. I actually think that if he wants to block, he would be more afraid to block Ahok, it would be more troublesome. Just imagine if H said free lunch, no need for a Ministry, just cook fried rice and give the money to his mother. Wouldn't that cause chaos because Ahok said that just now? That's why it's better to choose someone who knows how, right? If possible, I also want to be a minister to handle things like that, it's different when it's me. I don't like it, I'm different, I can't, it's impossible. You're in a tough spot now. Do you have any ideas? Do you want to be a minister to handle this? I will say the same as the Minister of SOEs. I will say, Pak Jokowi, Pak Set, I will enter the SOEs, right, at Pertamina, right? I don't think there is a need for the Ministry of SOEs, exactly like the book by Pak Tandi Abeng. What was it? I forgot. Tandi Abeng, may he rest in peace. He informed me about the book. Okay,

Mr. Jokowi needs to be careful because he also uses his calculations, he uses surveys for everything, if the second point is to increase the level of welfare. I think if the survey in the welfare sector is better in Central Java, the latest issue will be placed in Central Java. Politicians count, right? They do. Mr. Jokowi, right? Mr. Jokowi calculates surveys, counts surveys like that. Well, I think it's reasonable, if not, I think accusations like that are not necessarily true. Why? Because this election is direct and simultaneous. It's not easy anymore to send people like in my time. There are festivities, these festivities come from outside, it's different. This simultaneous point is that the sons and daughters of leaders will also run. Whether they are pushed forward or run inside, I don't know, the competition. I think each family has different perceptions, different ways of thinking, right? You have to understand that, right? As friends, yes, as humans, yes. It can be, right, in a humane way. That's the human nature, right? If you say, in terms of human nature, everyone wants to be the number one in the family, the number one in the family, that's in the family as a human nature. That's why perceptions are different, right? Earlier, it was mentioned about meritocracy, but now it seems to understand personal matters. Okay, that's

One sentence that I really like to memorize is The Foundation Of LA has what the. If the foundation of the law has crumbled, what else can we hope for in our debates? If the Constitutional Court is the guardian of our constitution, we can already have examination results. If there are problems, what else can we do but hope that in the future, there will be leaders who truly understand social justice. The best position is when they use their power to correct everything that goes against the love of the country. Going back to the issue of the emergence of the name of the chairman of PSI, Kaesang Pangarep, in the regional head election, it was interesting for Central Java. I don't know if he is the chairman of the DPR, he has the right to speak, right? According to Ahok, what are the minimum criteria that a person who wants to be a regional head must have? For example, taking the chairman of PSI, Kaesang, who is under 30, but because the Supreme Court issued a decision, now he can run if he wants to. What kind of leadership qualities should we demand from a leader? This is what I was asked when I started in politics, people asked me what makes you so great that you want to be a regent.

Have you ever experienced being a regent? Have you ever experienced politics, learned before, right? Then I said I have experience serving in the church, why spend money, the time when people curse me. I only work morning, afternoon, and night. I don't accept money to take care of people who are born and die. All of that is my experience. For me, what is most needed is to have empathy for the people, to help the poor and the needy. Okay, that's what I know about you, you are still afraid of God. So how do I know that you are like that? That's where we talk about the theory of Abraham Lincoln, the 16th President of America, wanting to test a person's character, give them power. That's why I started in the Regional People's Representative Council to show the people of East Belitung. Look, when I become an official in the Regional People's Representative Council, did I steal or not, did I do benchmarking studies or not, did I help you or not, can you contact me or not? If you believe in my character will be the same when I become a regent. Okay, so for me, it doesn't mean you have to have experience to become an official, if the only experience is for stealing, what's the point? But we also need to see if the process is a bit problematic, we are worried that person, if it's too easy, will

Can you bring the people here to leave this, okay, to get out of the hassle, like that, right? And then it's also questioned, or at least doubted, the relationship, kinship with President Jokowi. After Gibran, then in North Sumatra, his son-in-law will run for governor, and if his son becomes a candidate, he will run, but then some say, oh, but PDIP is also a political dynasty. Well, so how is it then? So if, for example, there are criticisms from the opposition of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle about the PDIP dynasty, it lacks credibility to talk about the dynasty. Let me tell you this, there is a difference. Ms. Mega, when I asked at that time, the issue of Ms. Puan running for president before Mr. Ganjar, that's not an issue, I don't know if there is an issue about her running. Then I asked Ms. Mega, Is it true that you will nominate Ms. Puan as president? She answered, No, where is the mistake? Where is the mistake? There is no mistake, actually. Then she said, I am preparing my child, that's why I share. Mr. Tatam doesn't deal with politics, Mr. Prananda manages the party, not the executive branch, he manages the legislative branch. So I prepare him for the executive branch. If he becomes a minister

The one who founded the party founded this country if the people do not want Mak Puan to be the president. Even if I have to force myself, I will still nominate the best cadre of the party. If Mr. Kena can work together with me, this is what I mean by meritocracy, different from Mr. Jokowi. I don't see him preparing because from the beginning, he always said his children should focus on business, selling martabak or something like that. Well, I don't see any changes suddenly, I must ask Mr. Jokowi. Personally, we are friends, like friends, still friends with Mr. Jokowi. As for me, I don't know if he still considers me a friend. I still feel like we are friends, we used to be very close, right, we used to work diligently together, very close before, now not so much, not really, haven't met in a while. When was the last time we met, over a year ago? At that time, we still hadn't met, he called me this time to ask me to become the President Director of Pertamina. Hmm, specifically at that time, the purpose was to be appointed as the President Director a year ago. Yes, yes, I just said, why only now, it would have been good if it had happened earlier. I said I could have been appointed as a Commissioner earlier.

I'm already happy as long as they want to obey me, right? They have never suffered a loss, always making a profit, even the highest profit in the last 4 years. I am already a specialist, especially when it comes to details. So why am I still joking like this, right, Sir? If there were someone else, other people, it would be best to be the CEO. Why? Because, as I said, I am currently undergoing therapy, Sir. What therapy? Golf therapy, piano therapy, Mandarin therapy, and so on. I mean, I can benefit many people if I become the CEO. Lots of money, maybe 25 to 100%, Sir. I also want it, Sir. I can do it. I have already said whatever I can give. I can leave 5 billion in profit. The last time it was already 4.3 billion. How much is the salary as a CEO? The salary can reach 100 million per month as a CEO, around 180-ish, but that's excluding bonuses and others. If there's a profit, then it's possible. If there's a profit, it's 1% to 1.3%, and it's distributed to all employees. I told them, Don't give it to me, Sir. It's better for someone else to have it. Because the happiest person is someone with money and time. If you have money but no time, it's not

I was serious earlier, like I asked Bu Bu, right? I was in the middle, right, Bu Bu, with Mr. Joko, is it a play or serious, Bu? I said that, I don't know, Bu said seriously. Yes, I was still stuck, then I asked Bu again, Bu, if that's the case, can I still meet Mr. Jokowi or not? Yes, you can, right, his friend, when was this, this conversation last year, oh, last year when was the last time we met, okay, now, Bu, do you mind, and then she said, No, just talked to Mr. Pramono again while eating. Oh, have you met Mr. Jokowi or not? No, not yet, I said, I want to, but friends are okay, right? So, Bu, if I do meet Mr. Jokowi, what should I talk about now? That's what I asked Bu Mega, What should I talk about, Bu? I asked Bu, Bu, if I meet Mr. Jokowi, what should I talk about, Bu? Then what should I say, what to say, talk casually, talk about whatever comes naturally, talk about something else, family, not Bu, surely ask about politics later, right, Bu, how should I answer? Just answer like a friend, she said

Because sometimes Bu Mega is difficult to read. There are many codes. I found one statement from Bu Mega at the National Coordination Meeting asking for Ahok's help to translate this. What does Bu Mega mean by this? Let's listen to it. This is also a political stance of the party, whether inside or outside the government, right? It's nice, right, if at this minute I'm talking about, it should be calculated politically. It's not nice, right, if it's not. This is definitely what the journalists are waiting for, this stance from the National Coordination Meeting this morning. I read it in Kompas. It will determine my stance while having breakfast, right? I said it's nice. Of course, I'll play with it first, not to play in a negative way. What does it actually mean, Bu, in this coordination meeting? Are we supposed to follow what's there, whether it's for journalists or not for journalists? Bu is currently teaching the cadres. Bu is angry at the cadres who speak in the media using opposition or coalition. So, Bu said if people in the struggle still use the words opposition or coalition, it's better not to. Just follow it, or get out of the way. This country is not parliamentary, it's not for journalists, it's a long story. If it's parliamentary, even if there are a few seats, once we pull, it will disband. If the

Helping in the government, as mentioned by the mother, Why the decision will be made by her, she said, I am part of the core team. So, every 1 or 2 months, we gather 10 people, as Mr. Mahfud mentioned, including Mr. Mahfud and myself. So, he wants to assist Mr. Prabowo in the current global situation with the experience he has. What is the contribution if it's not from the parliament? But helping here, not to be delegated, must be part of the ministerial government because in our constitutional system, if a minister from the ruling coalition resigns, it will collapse. If not, it's the prerogative of the president. Okay, so helping Madam Mega is there. She wants us to conduct studies to assist as much as possible, which will be given to Mr. Prabowo. The solution should be like this, whether he accepts it or not, that's the president's right, different from the parliament. So, regarding joining or not, I don't know, but when I hear what the mother says, it's all for our mothers, back then it was tougher, like 10 years without being involved, but for her, it's not right. However, we also don't want to be outsiders who can't do anything. It's not possible in the parliament.

Let's not follow blindly. If there is a mistake, a wrong path, a wrong concept, let's not follow blindly. For example, if there is free lunch, we cannot prevent our ministers from wanting to become ministers for the sake of getting 40 or 100. We cannot prevent that. But at least we can convey the solution. That's what Mother actually meant, to help. Of course, we don't want our country to be ruined. How can we allow the country to be ruined? Let the people suffer for 10 years? No, we don't want that. That's why I say I don't agree. That's why I say, people ask me, Why do you like to follow your mother, like your mother's age? I say, The important thing is not always agreeing, but always speaking up. When I speak to my mother, maybe this is the correct Asian value. She says, What is wrong, what is right? I don't know. Earlier, you said it was right. So, if there is something wrong, there must be something right. If there is something wrong, there must be something right. Yes, it's possible that there are values that are prohibited, such as gambling. We don't know if there is corruption or political dynasty. Is it right or wrong? In America, there are also political dynasties, but in the sense of the process. The people choose, it's different

Consider this, why do Asians generally hesitate to do various things because they are afraid of tarnishing their ancestors' names? Do you know what Mrs. Mega did? Mrs. Mega already said that if I don't manage this country well, Mr. Hok, I feel ashamed in front of my father who founded this country, who sacrificed. I have to maintain the good name of my father. That's what I've always been taught, right? Okay, our ancestors, we, Chinese people, consider our ancestors as still praying, still waiting, right? We don't dare to violate or tarnish the name of our ancestors. That's what I think. Instead of hoping for wealth, it's not good. Okay, bro, I want to ask one last question because earlier I mentioned, how long has it been? That's why I want to ask the last question. There are so many difficult questions. Because earlier, as I said in the beginning, I invited Mr. Hok with many hats as a politician who seems to have to pay a fee for a long time now, right? Because there is no income from Pertamina anymore, it's hard to get money, right? Oh, we have it. Thank God if there is still. So we invited Mr. Ahok as a politician for 20 years. He entered politics in the year 2000, now it's 2004. It's been 20 years, right? Well, actually, he entered

Former regional leaders, former regents, former members of the Regional People's Legislative Assembly, also former members of the People's Representative Council, and earlier I wanted to specify one former subordinate of Prabowo because he was once in Gerindra, yes, yes, right? Yes, Mr. Prabowo, after his recent surgery, why did he already send his regards? I don't have his contact. How come there's no contact with Mr. Prabowo since forever? There has never been. When was the last time I contacted Mr. Joko? I don't have it. Since the past. The last time I met Mr. Prabowo was at the Palace or where, I forgot. He met jokingly, how many times did we meet last year before the Presidential Election? I remember before the Presidential Election, there was a buzz about Ahok's statement regarding being cautious with Mr. Jokowi and Mr. Prabowo, then looking at how their relationship will be in the future, how it will be after being elected, and so on. The government sees it. Now we want to show the photo from yesterday, where Mr. Jokowi was grinning, and so on, looking at the relationship between the two presidents, one being upcoming and the other ongoing, seeing their relationship, how will this country be in the future? If they can have a connection like this, it's true. Thank God, Alhamdulill

Moreover, when I see it, I'm not accusing or anything. I see the next chess move, right? The Constitutional Court has also decided that there is no parliamentary threshold. This means that in the future, many new small parties will be formed because that's why Mrs. Mega said that the party is about cadre and ideology. We survive because of ideology, not because of receiving rice, cooking oil, or accepting clothes. Okay, so because if that happens, there will be an equal distribution. I'm just worried if people have money like that, if the people are not well educated about ideology, about cadre, maybe the parties will have 2%, 1%, 3%. But if the one who has it is 10 parties, one person has it, they will create some kind of end. Like a coalition that he leads. Going back to earlier, so how does Kahok see it in the future, the political chess game? I think in the future, many political parties will emerge. It could be that Mr. Joko leads them all, the small ones are combined. He said he wants to retire, he has built a house. I don't know, I'm just guessing. If you look at it, preparing children and grandchildren to stay in the executive means he also has a perception. Maybe he also understands this theory of Martin Luther King Jr., about power. If there is no power, there is a lack of blood and sentimentality maybe. I

Seeing there are still many small parties, later on, the coalition, if you have a 2% party, you have six parties, which means you have 12%. If you have just 8%, people are already afraid of you in the DPR. Can you survive? Can you survive? I don't know. And then, if you have a party, it means political bargaining. Joko Widodo will be more or less as strong as, or at least stronger than if he doesn't have a party. If you wait, I will study political science first. That question is very difficult. That question is very difficult. Guessing ahead, I don't like it. I'm new to this field. Thank you. Okay, finally, the time is up. I'm just fishing around in politics, so people won't ask me again. I intentionally... I can still... It's too long, so people will be curious. Because I also want to invite Ahok to travel around. We haven't traveled around for a long time. Travel around Indonesia, that's it, after the election. Why are you afraid of campaigning? Later, I think I want to be a governor there. I'll go to Surabaya to be the governor of East Java, then I'll go to Bali, the governor of Bali. Oh, I will be accused of... Yes, my fate is being chased, playing golf below 80, so don't disturb my work.

Now I want to reach 80, thank you for your support, thank you. Oh, I am so happy, thank God. Thank you for watching, see you again, peace be upon you.

Ahok soal Jokowi, Prabowo, dan Jakarta Hari Ini | Mata Najwa

Najwa Shihab

아혹의 다양한 역할과 권력에 대한 견해

아혹은 자신의 다양한 역할과 조코위와 프라보워 같은 정치인들과의 관계에 대해 이야기합니다.

또한 자신의 개인적인 성장과 관점의 변화에 대해 이야기하며 권력을 행사하는 데 있어 국가에 대한 애정이 중요하다는 점을 강조합니다.

또한, 아혹은 능력주의와 현재 통신정보부에서 벌어지고 있는 논란에 대한 자신의 견해를 밝힙니다.

정치에서 능력주의와 권력에 대한 요구

연사는 국가와 국민을 사랑하기 위해 권력을 사용하여 문제를 해결해야 한다고 강조하며 리더십의 능력주의를 옹호합니다.

권력은 신이 주신 것이라는 믿음을 표현하고 변화를 만들기 위한 세부적인 지식과 실질적인 힘을 갖는 것의 중요성에 대해 이야기합니다.

연사는 또한 현재의 정치 상황과 자카르타 주지사 공무원의 성과, 특히 헤루 주지사에 초점을 맞춰 반성합니다.

아혹이 말하는 자카르타의 현재와 미래

아혹은 자카르타의 미래와 칼리만탄의 새로운 수도에 대해 낙관적입니다.

그는 자카르타의 디자인과 인프라가 계속 개선될 것이라고 믿습니다.

또한 아혹은 도움이 필요한 사람들에게 식량과 원조를 제공하기 위한 실질적인 솔루션을 제안합니다.

정치 간부들의 승진에 대한 거부감

한 정치 간부는 교육에 집중하고 싶다고 강조하며 자카르타 외곽으로 재배치되는 것에 거부감을 표명합니다.

이 간부는 또한 실용주의보다 이념적 원칙의 우선순위를 강조하면서 PDI 페주앙안 당의 내부 역학 관계와 원칙에 대해 논의합니다.

간부는 압력에 직면한 당의 교육에 대한 헌신과 명확한 이념을 강조하고 아니스 바스웨단에 대한 지지와 관련된 정치적 상황에 대해 논의합니다.

리더십과 권력에 대한 정치 논평

부 니아니는 조코위 대통령의 의도에 회의감을 표하며 리더십에 대한 다른 접근법을 제안합니다.

그녀는 자신의 정치 경험을 바탕으로 리더의 공감 능력과 인격의 중요성을 강조합니다.

또한 부 니아니는 조꼬위 대통령의 사례를 언급하며 성공적인 지역 수장이 되기 위해 필요한 자질과 경험에 대해 이야기합니다.

인도네시아의 PDIP 왕조와 정치적 커넥션

조코위 대통령과의 관계에 대한 논란이 일고 있는 가운데, 가족들이 정치직에 출마하는 등 PDIP 왕조와 조코위 대통령과의 관계에 대한 논란이 있습니다.

비판에도 불구하고 당 지도자는 자신의 자녀가 잠재적인 대통령 후보로 지명될 수 있도록 준비하고 있습니다.

또한 조코위 대통령과의 과거와 현재의 관계에 대해 이야기하며 자연스럽게 만나서 이야기하고 싶다는 의사를 밝혔습니다.

국가조정회의에서의 혼란스러운 정치적 발언

메가와티는 국가 조정 회의에서 자신의 정치적 입장을 전달하기 위해 아혹의 도움을 구하고 있습니다.

그녀는 간부들에게 언론에서 '야당'이나 '연합'과 같은 단어를 사용하지 말고 자신의 지시를 따르라고 지시하고 있습니다.

메가와티는 현재의 국제 정세에서 쁘라보워를 돕고 싶어하며, 맹목적으로 잘못된 길을 따르지 않고 국가의 안정을 유지하는 것이 중요하다고 강조하고 있습니다.

인도네시아 정치의 미래에 대한 추측

전직 지도자들은 조코 위도도와 쁘라보워 대통령의 관계와 최근 헌법재판소의 결정이 새로운 군소 정당 설립에 미칠 영향을 고려하면서 인도네시아 정치의 미래에 대해 고민하고 있습니다.

신생 군소 정당을 이끌고 결합하는 데 있어 조코 위도도의 잠재적 역할과 정치 지형에서 권력과 영향력을 구축하기 위한 그의 전략에 대한 추측이 있습니다.

이 토론에는 아혹이 주지사가 되는 것에 대한 생각과 위도도 총재 자신의 야망을 포함하여 관련자들의 잠재적인 미래 정치적 열망도 포함됩니다.