The sovereignty of the nation resides with the people, and the political system is one that is conducted by the people, based on the principles of democracy, human rights, freedom, equality, majority rule, and the rule of law. Although these concepts are very familiar to us, it is challenging to understand them deeply. Today, we will explore the thoughts that shape democracy through remarkable figures who have traversed the ancient and contemporary realms of democracy. We will reflect on the future of democracy, accompanied by a book that brings us closer to this topic. 

We will discuss the thoughts on democracy contained within this book. It is a time to read about democracy and contemplate it. Hello, I am Kim So-young. Today, we will engage in a conversation about the values of democracy, featuring three guests. We have Dr. Shin Cheol-hee from the Korean Political Research Institute at Song University, and big data expert Kim Deok-jung.

Hello, Deputy Director and student Jeong Yujin. Today, let's discuss another book. Let's meet on the screen with the theme of Woo 222. The book we will be looking at today is Thomas More's Utopia. Utopia is not only the title of the book but also a term we often use in everyday language to describe an ideal place. Interestingly, it was Thomas More who first coined this term. 

Utopia has two significant meanings. The first part, u, comes from the Greek word ou, meaning not, and when combined with topos, which means place, it translates to no place. The second part, topia, can be derived from the Greek word eu, meaning good, which gives us good place. Thus, utopia signifies a place that does not exist anywhere in the world, yet is so perfect that it is practically unattainable. So, it carries these two meanings.

Today, the term utopia, which signifies a perfect ideal society, has become a commonly used noun. Thomas More was the first to use the word utopia, but in fact, there have been many words expressing the longing for an ideal society both before and after him. Throughout human history, there has been a constant striving for some kind of ideal. For example, Plato's The Republic is a representative work, and Utopia was heavily influenced by it. The ideal society mentioned in The Republic, called Kallipolis, is a notable example. After that, we have Francis Bacon's New Atlantis. Moving to non-Western societies, we find concepts like the ideal society in Buddhism, and we can also refer to the well-known novel Hong Gildong, which can be seen as a type of utopia. This really reminds us of the dreams and ideals that transcend time and space.

I think humanity has dreamed of an ideal utopia, and I'm curious about how Koreans living in this era feel about it. It seems that people in our country are not much different. I analyzed the discussions related to utopia among Koreans on social media, and I found that in 2020, there were about 134,000 mentions, which is significantly higher than in 2010. It has increased more than five times, which is quite remarkable. 

When I analyzed the reasons for this, I concluded that the influence of fandom and online communities plays a significant role. In fact, even in January and February of this year, the number of mentions was almost six times that of last year, indicating that within just a couple of months, there has been an increase of over one-third compared to the previous year. This shows how much people are interested in the ideal of a utopia.

It seems that interests and hopes are increasing. By any chance, has our student Jeong Yu-jin ever searched for photo sites related to Utopia? Yes, I also searched while preparing for this broadcast. Do we recall any related searches? When I searched yesterday, I found terms like memorial room and Bart, which are commonly used. Clearly, the term Utopia evokes various associations, and most of the content is related to places like parks or memorials. So, what kind of feelings do we associate with Utopia? I took a look at some emotional keywords online. The blue-highlighted terms indicate positive sentiments. When people think of Utopia, they often imagine things that are beautiful, powerful, refreshing, and fulfilling.

I think I'm recalling some happy images, and it seems like there are more positive things than negative ones. Personally, when I think of utopia, I imagine a peaceful plain or some kind of tranquil dream. I hope that today, as we talk about democracy, this time and place can feel like a utopia for us. Now, let's continue with our conversation. Thomas More's Utopia was published in 1511, and even after five hundred years, it remains a well-known classic. Our student, Yujin, must have read it while preparing for this broadcast. How was it for you? 

Yes, when I usually see the introduction to Utopia, it's often referred to as a work of fiction. I imagined it to be similar to the sci-fi we commonly know, but unlike that, it contains many idealistic elements. For example,

In reality, it is often difficult to engage in conversations that challenge social realities through paradox and humor, which are common literary devices. I found it quite enjoyable to read, even though it may have been quite challenging at times. Honestly, the content is intriguing, but what really captures my interest is the figure behind this book, Thomas More. I did some research on him. Thomas More was born into a legal family in London, and at that time, he could be considered a successful lawyer and a prominent humanist. He was well-educated and eventually rose to the position of Lord Chancellor. Nowadays, you might say he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, truly among the elite. Ironically, in 1535, he was executed for his refusal to accept the supremacy of the king over the church.

편지를 딸에게 남기고 런던탑에 가서 생을 마감하게 됩니다. 뭔가 드라마틱한 생애를 사는 것도 이런 느낌이죠. 박사님, 제 말에서 조금 더 이어서 문학적인 인식을 붙여 주셔도 좋을 것 같은데요. 와이토모는 작잖아요. 어떤 사람이었나요? 예, 말씀하신 것처럼 토마스 모어는 당대 최고의 인문학자였습니다. 그는 독실한 기독교인이었고, 20대 초반에 갑자기 수도사가 되려는 마음을 가졌습니다. 그래서 4년 정도 수도원에서 수도사 생활을 했는데, 중간에 마음을 바꿔서 세상으로 나와 법률과 하원의원, 대법관, 그리고 구강의 비서 등 고위 공직을 지낸 당대의 아주 존경받는 인물이었습니다. 그런데 그의 인생에도 큰 전환점이 닥칩니다. 그 당시 헨리 8세가 이혼을 하려고 하는데, 모어는...

어구 강 의원 회 현대를 했습니다. 그리고 4 헨리 8세가 교회의 수장은 교황이 아니라 이제 자신이라는 문서를 만들어서 당시 대법관에게 서명을 하라고 강요했습니다. 하지만 모어는 양심을 지키기 위해 거부하게 되죠. 그래서 모어는 1535년에 처형당하게 됩니다. 그의 묘비명은 고결한 양심과 불멸의 영혼입니다. 그의 삶 자체가 신념이 있는 정치인으로서 지식이 밀렸다고 말할 수 있겠습니다. 고결한 양심과 불멸의 영혼, 그 묘비명을 만들어도 참 멋있는 사람이었구나 싶은데요. 이러한 배경을 바탕으로 저희가 토머스 모어의 유토피아를 신청이 박사님의 강연으로 만나보겠습니다. 저희가 어떤 점에 집중해서 들으면 좋을까요? 유토피아는 크게 1부와 2부로 구성되어 있는데요, 1부는 영국 현실을 비판하는 내용으로 이루어져 있고 2부는 이상향 유토피아에 대한 내용입니다.

Now, we are talking about systems and customs. I hope you can listen while comparing. However, what exactly is being discussed? Is utopia truly a genuine utopia? This program is related to democracy. I would like to consider what kind of democratic ideals we can extract from this. Yes, great. Then, from now on, let's listen to Dr. Shin's lecture on utopia. 

Thomas More's Utopia is a book written between 1510 and 1516. The original title is On the Best State of a Commonwealth and on the New Island Utopia. The background in which Utopia was written is very important. Do you know who that is? Yes, that's right. He was about twelve years older than More but they were very close friends. In fact, before Utopia, Erasmus wrote The Praise of Folly.

Famous books really need to be taken seriously. However, there is a reason why I came to write a book called In Praise of Folly. It started with a suggestion to write a satirical book about the realities of the time, and so in 1511, I began writing In Praise of Folly. The title itself is interesting; the word folly is derived from the Latin word morus. After that, the In Praise of Folly illuminated the ideas contained within. This book became very famous across Europe. A few years later, Erasmus, in turn, suggested that since I had written a book inspired by In Praise of Folly, why not write something about the goddess of wisdom, Athena? He encouraged me to explore what a country ruled by the goddess of wisdom would look like. The conclusion was...

There is no place like Taesan. I thought of the word Rusko, which refers to a certain country. To point to that country, I attached news and spoke about it. It was good to name that country, but later the term Rusko was changed to Utopia by the Greeks, and it has been passed down to this day. Now, to understand Utopia, the historical context is important. At that time, England was going through the Hundred Years' War and the Wars of the Roses. You've probably heard of it; England was almost destroyed but managed to barely overcome it. Then, a new royal dynasty emerged. At that time, England was on the outskirts of Europe. However, through the efforts of the Tudor dynasty, England laid the foundation to grow into the empire known for the phrase the sun never sets. But as England's industry developed...

A serious social issue emerges. Do you know what it is? There was some appearance of something in the water. It's the sheep closure movement. Have you heard of it? This relates to sheep, right? Sheep are known as a suffering animal, but there is a famous saying that they eat people. In Utopia, they talk about cats eating people. So what’s the story? Suddenly, the demand for wool increased across Europe. However, the landowners calculated that raising sheep would be more profitable than farming. So they drove away all the farmers who were cultivating the land and started to create pastures to raise sheep. But to prevent the sheep from escaping, they built fences. Hence, the term closure, meaning they were surrounded. While the landowners made a lot of money, the problem was that the farmers who were driven away faced significant issues.

There is no way to make a living; there is no food to eat. So those people inevitably turn to crime or become involved in criminal activities. A characteristic of Korean history is a strict punishment policy. Do you know how people who committed theft were punished back then? They were subjected to harsh measures. For example, if someone stole a small item, they were severely punished. However, the nobility did not try to fundamentally solve these issues; they believed that simply punishing was sufficient. Thus, Utopia is set against the backdrop of contemporary British society, characterized by strict punishment, unnecessary wars, and a widening gap between the rich and the poor. Now, let’s take a closer look at the content of Utopia.

As I mentioned, it is composed of two parts. Yes, some point out the issue of extreme punishment, but in fact, there is a system of private property in insurance. I thought that as long as there is a system of private property, fair distribution becomes impossible, and therefore, it is said that one cannot live a happy life. This is the view of some. In the second part, due to educational reasons, I visit Belgium. While going to Belgium, Erasmus also appears, and there is a friend named Pattern 1s who is very capable. I was told to meet him, so I ended up meeting him. However, in Pattern Hill, I was also introduced to another good friend of mine, a Portuguese traveler and philosopher, who is none other than Rafael.

The content of the Utopia presented in Part 2 is not just a story; it describes a society that has been discovered while exploring an unknown world. This island of Utopia features a republic where complete local autonomy is established, and there is no king. People work only six hours a day, which is quite remarkable. The remaining time is dedicated to reading and leisure activities. This reflects the idea of a life with evenings, emphasizing mental satisfaction and happiness. This society values collective living, where many people share meals together, seeking collective happiness in their daily lives. Thus, the depiction of Utopia illustrates a community-focused way of life. If we look into the institutions and customs of Utopia in this part, we can draw parallels with Plato's Republic.

The appearance of Lee Sang-goo gives a somewhat similar feeling, and the content mentioned by the state is also reflected here. So, can we say that it has been significantly influenced? Yes, that’s correct. I mentioned that he is a famous advocate of idealism. Naturally, he was exposed to many Greek works, including Plato's, from a young age, and the concept of utopia has been greatly influenced by the content of Plato's The Republic. Plato's name is frequently mentioned as well. However, the aspect of a communal society without private property is quite similar to the state of a smartphone and utopia, but there are differences too. Plato's The Republic is a society governed by a wise and capable philosopher-king, whereas, as I mentioned earlier, there is no direct ruler in this context; the citizens themselves...

There is a country that operates through some collective efforts. In Plato's The Republic, society is divided into three classes: there is a warrior class, and then there are the ordinary citizens who engage in labor. In contrast, Utopia can be described as an egalitarian society without any occupational disparities. In this regard, both the Republic and Utopia share some commonalities. However, the differences lie in the fact that Plato's ideal state resembles but is different from Moore's Utopia. While reading, I became curious about something regarding Eugene. I found it very striking that the opinions of Moore and Hylas are completely opposed to each other. Which position should we consider as the true stance of Thomas? Yes, that's a very good question. Hylas, in particular, makes some very radical claims in the dialogue, while Moore presents his ideas in Utopia.

Negative stories are being discussed here. Therefore, it was considered that the ideal society of slots on iOS lacks realism. However, one might wonder why someone would write about a utopia that isn't even their own thought. This raises questions among utopia researchers about the extent of the author's genuine thoughts and where the fictional narrative begins. This is a significant topic among researchers. I wish we could see what their true thoughts are.

Now, let's examine what true thoughts might be. In utopia, there are discussions about the journey to a higher ideal. This raises doubts about whether the ideal society truly exists or if it is merely a utopian concept. For instance, the idea of a highly totalitarian system comes to mind. When they mentioned a six-hour workday, it seems too far-fetched and enviable, yet it is enforced.

There are some people who are exempt from forced labor, such as scholars, who need to focus on their studies. They are granted exemptions, but achieving research results is difficult, and one must risk their life to accomplish it. The idea of a utopia is often described as a huge family, which reflects its collective nature. 

Currently, a group consists of 10 members, but if that number exceeds, some members will be sent away. The subject of OS is popular. However, there is no freedom of travel; it's not a good situation. There are definitely issues that we see as problematic in this utopia. 

Additionally, there are points that are hard for us to agree with, particularly concerning existence. A utopia is fundamentally a nation that aims for peace, but at the same time, there are reasons for unwanted circumstances.

또 전쟁을 벌이기도 하거든요. 이웃나라가 피해를 입을 때까지 우리나라가 이제 그걸 어떻게 생각해야 할지 고민해야 한다는 점에서 전쟁을 익히는 것이 이해하기 힘든 측면이 있습니다. 그렇다면 유토피아에서 이야기하려는 생각은 무엇인가? 저는 두 가지로 생각해 볼 수 있습니다. 첫째, 완벽한 사회는 이 세상 어디에도 존재하지 않는다는 것입니다. 둘째, 유토피아는 신에 의해서 주어지거나 위대한 건국자가 갑자기 선물로 준 것이 아니라, 1700년의 역사 동안 사람들의 노력으로 만들어온 것입니다. 여기서 알 수 있듯이 우리는 유토피아를 추구하며 더 나은 사회를 만들기 위한 노력을 포기해서는 안 됩니다.

I had a thought, but among them, the name Mickey in Mickey's Slot seems to have a significant meaning. This person may not be very quick, but does that name carry meaning? It still has a profound significance. It means a person who spreads nonsense. The name itself conveys this, right? We have to consider that the main speaker's name suggests that what is being discussed in Utopia is not entirely true or desirable; there are also some stories that are hard to accept. This has been embedded through the name. After hearing the character's name, I feel like I can see a glimpse of the author's inner thoughts. They seem to highlight their opinions through the protagonist, showing the ideals and decisions they make. Ultimately, I think it conveys a message that the technique is important.

While criticizing this corruption and depravity, Thomas More proposed the idea of an ideal society, a utopia. I feel that his message resonates not only with the society of his time in England but also with today's society. We are currently discussing the concept of utopia and its implications. The next question is prepared by student Yujin. 

In the book on utopia, private property is abolished, and everyone lives communally. I recall that while discussing this, we touched upon various aspects. The content that Thomas More wrote in his utopia can be seen as similar to socialism. Of course, there are similarities, especially in the abolition of private property and the pursuit of communal living, which are common points between utopia and socialism. However, there are also significant differences. More believed that the foundation of society lies more in human nature than in institutional frameworks.

I have thought about this. I believe that if private property were abolished, humanity would inevitably become lazy. This is one of the key differences from socialism. Socialism fundamentally relies on certain principles; however, it envisions a utopia that, while not ignoring material aspects, fundamentally aims for holistic pleasure and happiness. 

The significant difference lies in the fact that the ideal depicted in utopia can be achieved not merely by chance but through the rational and reasonable efforts of the residents. This can be described as part of a project where the ideal state is built through the rational efforts of the community. Ultimately, this dream might be what democracy is striving for today. If that is the case, we should consider the thoughts that shaped modern democracy 500 years ago regarding utopia.

I will look into it a bit more. As I mentioned earlier, the meaning of utopia refers to a country where a complete local self-government system is implemented. It consists of 54 identical cities, and each city is made up of 6,000 households. There are 30 households per unit. In this system, bureaucrats are elected to work and manage, and a manager is elected for every 300 households. So, if we calculate the total number of mayors, it can be quite significant. For every 30 households, there is one mayor. If we assume a wise distribution, there would be about 200 mayors. Interestingly, there is also a manager for every 10,000 households. However, with the 200 mayors, they are elected through a secret ballot process. This has similarities to the structure of our society.

Our country's local autonomy was re-established less than 30 years ago, but it is quite surprising that a perfect local autonomy system was implemented over 500 years ago. As I mentioned earlier about the freedom of religion, Europe at that time was in the era of the Reformation. I mentioned that Utopia was written during those years. There were many significant works, and Luther initiated the Reformation around 1517. At that time, Europe was characterized by a lack of religious freedom; it was not permitted to choose one's own religion. However, in Utopia, there is already a depiction of a society where individuals can choose their own beliefs, which can be considered a very important aspect of today's democracy.

The democratic society depicted in a utopia cannot be fully realized as it is now, but some aspects of it are indeed operating through imagination and have become our goals. Ultimately, the modern reality we live in might be shaped by the desires and dreams of many people. So, if we consider the vision of democracy we aspire to in the future, I am curious about what ideal world our participants envision. Have you thought about this, Yujin? 

I have thought about utopia. I wish for a society where we only work six hours a day. Currently, our country is experiencing excessive stress and pressure, and I believe we should be able to spend more time on education and leisure. I think it would be great if we could achieve that. Since our student Yujin has shared this, it makes me want to quickly express my thoughts as well.

Although it may seem like retirement, there are still things that need to be done, and since it's time for this, I will proceed with my responsibilities. I have been waiting for this moment, and now we have a special time to explore people's thoughts hidden within big data, led by our Deputy Director, Kim Deok-jung. 

So, what keywords have you prepared for today? Today, we have analyzed the book Joy Utopia through three keywords: the ideal society, pleasure and happiness, and equality. Let's take a closer look at each of these three topics. 

First, we examined how people in our country perceive the ideal society, focusing on relevant keywords. As you can see, importance and equality both hold similar significance in people's thoughts. This raises the question of how we should approach this topic.

When looking at the related content, it seems that realistically, it cannot be realized, and our current society is far from an ideal society. However, one positive signal is the hope that achieving an ideal society, although difficult, could still become a reality. I believe that there are clear positive aspects to these expectations. Next, let's take a look at the second keyword, happiness, and examine what people have written about it. The content on social media was mostly focused on physical pleasures. There were keywords like chaos and others that emerged. Interestingly, the pursuit of mental happiness in an ideal society seems to yield somewhat contrasting results, which I found personally intriguing.

Happiness, too, raises concerns about when one might be happy. It seems that happiness is linked to the act of ordering or purchasing. Ha ha! The happiness I feel when ordering or buying something shows that the keyword related to consumption has quite a high score. This suggests some distinctive aspects; it seems that people value material happiness just as much as psychological happiness. By the way, what was the last keyword? The last keyword is equality. The top related keyword associated with this team is complaints about inequality. It seems a bit surprising, doesn’t it? So, I looked into how the perception of inequality is formed, focusing on that keyword. This time, I analyzed the related keywords that come up together with equality and complaints. It turned out that the important factors distinguishing equality from inequality are quite significant.

If we solve these issues, perhaps we can find some resolution. As you can see, if we address societal systems or educational policies, the complaints and problems may be somewhat alleviated. Ultimately, when I interpret these three keywords, I believe we have not yet reached an ideal society, but we are not giving up and are still dreaming of an ideal place. 

Looking into our thoughts as we live in the present, I wonder where we might be on the spectrum of utopia. When we feel the pressing issues of reality, it seems we tend to envision an ideal utopia, much like before. This is precisely why utopia has long been read as a classic by many people.

I think we should listen to the doctor about why we need to read Utopia. The final lecture topic is: Why should we read Utopia? The first point is that Utopia provides us with a critical standpoint from which to evaluate reality. What is admirable is that the author could have lived a life of luxury, but instead of avoiding that pinnacle, he openly reveals it in Utopia. The structure of Utopia points out some of the problems in British reality, while also illustrating an improved version of society, thus contrasting the two. Through Utopia, we can understand what we want to achieve and what we are striving for. The second point is that we should not stop aspiring toward an ideal society. It is important to understand that reaching an ideal society is not about having completed it, but rather about continuously striving for it.

As humans, we must not give up on improving our society and making it a better place. I want to emphasize this point. Thirdly, the concept of utopia is connected to our society. What are the issues we are most concerned about? I want to address economic issues, as expected. There are also problems related to criticism. As capitalism develops, we encounter various issues due to globalization. While it may be difficult to draw direct similarities or lessons from utopia, I believe it can be utilized as a source of imagination. I discovered an interesting aspect while rereading utopia: the people there dine in groups, and the standard is four people.

Just about spring will come. We had a meal together until then, but what was lost was the first address, whether it was Oxy or the policy makers reading Utopia and imagining. I'm not sure, but we repeatedly went to this U2 Pil seminary. So, even though it's difficult to directly verify that reality, we can use it as a reference point or a center for improving our issues. Therefore, Utopia can be said to provide us with more imagination to create a better society, a more rational society, and a more livable society in the 21st century. Thank you very much for today's lecture. It was a time to meet a deeper Utopia through the lecture. So, how did you find it, Yujin? I didn't realize it at that time.

Through the professor's lecture on the topics we discussed, I was able to understand the concept of utopia much better. It gave me a strong feeling about the second human. The younger generation tends to perceive the classics as outdated, but after listening to the lecture, I feel grateful to the professor for helping to clarify that perspective. 

I empathize with this. While rereading Utopia, I was reminded of the book Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, which has a fascinating inner world. I thought it would be a good fit, even though it may not seem like a perfect match. 

Indeed, Brave New World can be considered a counterpart to George Orwell's 1984 in the realm of dystopian literature. We often think of technological advancement as progress for humanity, but when humanity and freedom are absent, it makes us question whether such a society is truly good.

I would say that reading Utopia is a very good choice. We talked about Utopia and also about dystopian books. Eugene, could you share some books that are good to read together? After thinking a lot about what would be a good book to read alongside Utopia, I chose one from the books I've read. The book I would like to introduce is Memories of the Future. 

Memories of the Future is a novel set in a virtual society of the future. First of all, I think it’s interesting because it brings us along at the right moment. It seems to give people something to think about, just like Utopia. Although everything is strictly controlled in order to maintain social stability, if personal freedom and rights are taken away, can that still be called a utopia?

I recommend this book because it makes you wonder if people can live there. In fact, I also watched it, but only in English. I thought, Oh, this novel doesn't have an original, but I feel like I should definitely read the book this time. That's right; it seems we provided you with information about more than one book today. The book I brought is not just a simple read like Oil and Water, but I hope it’s a book you would want to read. You've been with us since Dr. Shin's lecture today; how did you find it? Although there is no place in our world like the one described, we must not give up on our efforts to create an ideal society. What we learned is that we are imperfect because we are human. I would like to conclude by quoting a famous line from Goethe's Faust.

Because we are human, we wander as long as we have a direction. We have aspirations about 2, 3, and 4, and because we have those points of aspiration, we can feel more confused and imperfect. I think we could learn about this from Utopia. I will definitely remember the good words until the end. 

With books, we also take the time to nurture our hearts. This is the time to meet democracy, and today, we will conclude here. We will return next time. Thank you. 

At that time in British history, there was a strict punishment system. I learned how they dealt with people who committed theft. The content criticizes the reality of Britain at that time, and it’s all about the six-hour workday. It sounds great, but it seems like it’s not about the freedom of travel. What is it?

2회 토마스 모어 유토피아 [민주주의를 만나는 시간]

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