have you ever done this? Recommended a product to someone, only for them to come back and tell you the whole thing was a nightmare? It is the worst feeling. It's even worse when you recommended that same product to, I don't know, a few million other people. So when this email hit my inbox, I was freaking out. Not only does Buddy say he's got a broken laptop, which I mean, that happens from time to time. DOA happens. But then he goes into his awful experience with Framework customer support. Now my instinct was to run to my computer and send an email to the CEO demanding that he help this customer. But then I thought, if one person is having this problem, there could be hundreds or even thousands. And if something's rotten over at Framework, putting a Band-Aid on this one complaint isn't going to solve it. So I took matters into my own hands, or rather someone else's hands, deploying a crack team to go undercover and secret shop Framework. And spoiler alert, things didn't get off to a perfect start with

one of our two machines arriving with a factory defect, which I guess is good because it gives us an opportunity to put their customer service to the test. The stakes really couldn't be higher here. As some of you may remember from my investment disclosure, I said that if Framework doesn't uphold the promises and commitments they made to me and our community, my breakup with them will be swift, absolute, and in public. You might also remember in that video, I segued to our sponsor, really Bridge, who's coming at you with something totally different: a soft wallet. It's a double-sided leather wallet designed to hold both your cards and your cash, and you can check it out using our link in the video description. Let's start this off by taking a closer look at the email that kicked off this whole investigation. After Seth received his DIY Framework 13 and installed his own Ramen SSD, he was having issues getting it to post. He reached out to support and was frustrated to say the least when it took 7 days to receive a response that

wasn't automated, and adding insult to injury, they asked him to try troubleshooting steps that he already said he tried. First thought, then 7 days is a really long time to sit there with a fancy new, not to mention expensive, paperweight. But hopefully, it's an outlier. To find out, we attempted to recreate his situation by ordering the exact same laptop, opting to bring our own RAM and SSD. But since one laptop, it's not a very large sample size. We decided to double it, placing a separate order several months later for a pre-built framework 16. Fulfillment for both of them was what I would describe as solid. We ordered the DIY 13 way back in March. 6 days later, landed on our doorstep. Not bad considering it came from the other side of the world. As for the framework 16, same story, except in July, and it arrived on a different doorstep. We wanted to make sure that if we had to open support tickets for both machines, that they would not be coming from the same person or from the same

address now. We'll get to support in a bit, but first, one of Framework's main attractions is that they provide resources that assist the user with repairs and the maintenance of their device. So rather than just have me build the DIY Edition again, we recruited Natalie from our LT store team. She knows enough about tech to be interested in it but hasn't spent literal days with her head inside a computer. Let's see how she did. All right, what is this? Cool. Okay. Oh wow, stickers. It's actually pretty enjoyable watching people's, you know, real, not overblown YouTuber reaction. Whoa, stickers. Wow. I kept, this is what a normal person looks like when they're reacting to stickers. You can tell she's being like super careful with everything. Yeah, but that's the way that a real customer would be. People often get after me about the way that I'm like, yeah, I don't know, yeah, someone else will pick up these boxes a lot of the time. It is me after the shoe, but yeah, I like the I.

like the quick pace, you know 100%, whereas she likes to work in computer at the end. All right, packaging is not that great to open. Oh, sick burn on the packaging. I do like this paper very, I don't know how protective it is, but it's very nice and clean. I gave her basically nothing going into this cool. I told her that you're building a laptop. You can use as many guides as you would like, which is from Framework's website. That's pretty cool. So, this is representative of pretty much a worst-case scenario in terms of how informed she would be because if she had actually placed the order herself, she would have maybe read the product page, but she's going in even fresher. Yeah, which is important to keep in mind. She's under a lot of pressure doing something brand new for her and something she's never done and trying to be camera presentable. Um, so please like the video and leave a nice comment for Natalie 'cause she did great in all honesty. Yeah, she's our prince. She's going in.

fresh oh Bel Air all right set up upgrade and repair guides view all guides. So they had a QR code that she was able to scan. Start with step one. Yes, unbox your framework laptop. Don't power it on just yet. You'll need to install some modules. I will open it from the packaging first. Then framework laptop. Wow, so excited Natalie. Locate the framework screwdriver in the package underneath. Yep, so only the only tool you'll need to assemble the framework laptop DIY Edition. Okay, let's see if that's true. That is pretty cool that you only need one tool to build it and they give it to you. And this is actually where I noticed the first issue with Framework's guides here. Oh, it had the QR code in the box and she scanned it and it took her to that website there. It didn't take her to the direct link for her specific SKU. I think that's something they could improve. Yes, so she has the AMD version. Yes, step four. Insert the DDR5 memory module. So we lift open the flap. There's

two slots. It's cool that they have videos in the guide, not just pictures. That's sick. According to the video, and one thing I did confirm, is the QR codes on the individual items themselves do take you to like those specific instructions, so for the RAM or whatever, right? So everything else was right except the very first one, which is the one that they shove in your face when you open it. Oh, there we go. First RAM stick doesn't look like she got it in quite. A little more in might help. I do think that video could be better. I think they could show that you have to like slide it in a little harder. One thing I think that's tough about the video too is that like overlay of like the back 10, forward 10, and play stays open in that tiny window and it darkens the whole screen, so it's like a little annoying. You can see her several times. She tries to like tap away so that it like goes away, and then there's the click. Okay, she gets it. Yep, nice. Using the T5 bit in the

frame or I need my handy tool unscrew the fastener. She works for Creator Warehouse, Natalie. You can say screwdriver. It's not a competing product yet. Do you think that screwdriver is better than LT stores? How dare you, H LT screwdriver all the way. Yeah, she knows what's up. I was just asking you. She knows what's up. It was a non-biased question, traitor. I speaking of bias, actually, this is probably a good time to ask how I can evaluate something like framework when I've invested in them. Oh, uh, how can you fairly evaluate something like framework when you have invested in them, Elijah? What's your problem? You managed the project. You know that I didn't do anything but greenlight it and film it. Well, and add this super awkward interaction. This is a really awkward way of telling them. Yeah, I added this part. I thought it was funny. That is not magnetic, and I have to hold the screw in. Yeah, what? What is this? Throwing shade. All right, step five done. Go take.

that framework. I would honestly call those like the easiest steps of a laptop 'cause you can do that with even some pre-builts already. Well, the challenge is getting that thing open, sure, in a lot of cases. Yeah, it's really easy when it's easy to open up the machine. Mhm, install the touchpad cable, assuming it's this gestures of well the picture. The picture doesn't really match. That's a really good point. Make sure the touchpad side of the touchpad cable is fully inserted here. So, this is one of those things where it comes inserted already, but they actually give a step eight just in case, right? Make sure you double-check this. Yeah, it would be nice if they said it is pre-attached. Yeah, but it could come loose in shipping. Tell me why. Yeah, so yeah, it does say in the red there the cable should be inserted far enough. Yeah, but it doesn't say why I'm checking it. Yeah, like occasionally these come loose in shipping due to thermal expansion and contract. Like tell me why.

I'm doing something, yeah, educate me. There you go, nice, good job, Natalie. Uh, align the corners of the bezel to display and place it down. The bezel is attached by magnets and should easily click into place. Sometimes, sometimes the display cable can kind of not cable manage perfectly. Oh no, that's going to happen, isn't it? You're going to find out very quickly here. Oh good, doesn't not sound great. Oh, she didn't screw on the top yet. No, she wasn't supposed to. The instructions did not tell her to screw on the top. The instructions ask to open the hinge 180° and put the bezel on. She followed that, yeah, so she didn't have it quite aligned yet. Yep, let's try this one again. So you can kind of see some of those cables there, y by Magnus. Okay, was that is something that framework could improve? Yep, it would be nice if they had pictures of what correctly seated cables looked like. Yes, because I've actually run into it before where I routed it.

across the wrong thing, and that made it worse, not better. Mhm, so she's now like double-checking everything. She's worried about her input cover. She was worried about all of this interesting. There's a lot of comments on these. Do the comments outline some of the issues that we've encountered already? There was someone in the comments that help that would have helped solve this issue that crunching. We'll find out in a little bit was actually due to how the um screws because they're captive fell underneath the laptop and the hinge catches it when it tries to close. Got it. And so it's the bezel related because you have to lay it down for the bezel. Yeah, but it's caught on the screws. Yeah, but the comments are not that obvious. Yeah, she even mentioned she's like do I have to go in the comments. I go to the comments. There's no way I go to the comments. There's no way you have to go to the comments for instructions. There's no way I have to go

to the com oh Natalie so she doesn't so she doesn't she doesn't framework needs to go into those comments mine for nuggets of gold yeah and get them oh this wasn't back when I had my horrible haircut oh God man that's gross why' you show that on camera her infection what it was just her there now she's got a staff infection so you can see the screw there caught on the hinge that's what I had to do I had to turn it upside down so the gravity took the Fasteners back down yeah then I could close it yep and no Crunch and then this is where I tell her in the comments someone points out that the Fasteners will get in the way yeah so this is actually where now it tells you to keep going and screw the Fasteners back in I think this step should honestly come first but they don't want the screen to be closed because without the bezel you know it doesn't add all the protection and everything right that is a big wall of

text for the expansion cards, but I understand why I didn't even know this when I did my unboxing. But the AMD version specifically has certain modules that work best in certain spots. MH modular IO, it's pretty cool, it's kind of cool, it's pretty sick. Open the lid and press the power button. All right, this is the Moment of Truth. Here we go. Where's my top-down view? There we go. Note that your first boot will take a while before the logo. That's a really good thing for them to point out, especially modern AMD platforms. They take a hot minute for memory training on the first boot. And there you go. There we go. There's some intricate parts that are a little bit difficult to kind of grasp at first. Obviously, with the screw issue, we didn't know until we looked at the comments. But overall, like, it's kind of, it's a pretty fun experience building your own laptop. Do you think that you would save the personal between $100 to $200 to do this experience again? This is

the moment of truth. I think so, yes. She thinks so, yes. Even after some struggles, it's worth the savings for a hundred bucks, a couple hundred bucks off the laptop. The more of a savvy shopper you are on your RAM and on your storage, the more you can potentially save. Because I got to tell you, when we did the Framework factory tour and I discovered that the DIY ones actually get fully assembled into a working machine before being taken back apart, yeah, and then sold as a DIY, it's not labor savings, yeah. It's not paying a markup on those additional components, 100%. The touchpad's working perfect. That's good. Oh, okay. This is the camera, and this is the audio that you're hearing from this Framework laptop mic. So hopefully everything sounds good. Sounds good, Natalie. Good job, Natalie. Thank you. She put the stickers on nice. Cool. This is actually pretty symmetrical, the stickers. I'm very proud of that. I mean, I'm pretty proud of the laptop too. I'm definitely including that editor. Make sure that parts in there at the end, so

After this, we did a full check just to make sure everything did fully work, and it arrived to us in 100% working condition. Excellent, mhm. Which means that if we want to recreate Seth's issue, we're going to have to do some work. He said his display wasn't turning on, and the LEDs inside his chassis were giving him three different error codes. But we couldn't find any reference to any of those codes on Framework's website, so either Framework hasn't published them yet, or it's possible Seth misinterpreted them. Either way, we won't be able to recreate his exact situation that he had. The closest thing that I could come up with, I took a knife to the display cable and cut it until it didn't turn on anymore. It worked, or did didn't work. And then meanwhile, we asked Alex to unbox the 16. Look at his face, that's a man who laptops. He does laptop, he seriously laptops. Okay, this is their config, which explains why we're able to get it in a

week, which is absolutely fantastic. That's about what you expect, and especially given it's Canada, went right into hosting mode. I just asked him to open it and check it. He was like, hosting. I was like, This is great. This is great. It's almost like he's been doing it for seven years, I think. So, wait, we wanted a pre-built config here. This should have been pre-built. I'm not sure why did we order a pre-built. So, this is where it gets confusing because we ordered a pre-built, and as someone who never ordered a framework before, I expected it to come 100% built. But because the framework 16 has the modular interface on top, they make you put that together. Yes, to make you know how to reconfigure it, but as a user, I was very confused when I saw the keyboard on top. I was like, Huh, do they mess up our order? It does appear that it has everything that you need, minus the iio, but does it have a keyboard? It does not. It does not. That's something that I normally expect.

On my laptops, are you supposed to have a keyboard installed in the pre-built? No man, that's so cool. That's still one of the like, ah, it's pretty cool, it's sick. The one we're watching on right now has a numpad installed, so the keyboard is shifted to the side, and the spacers are both on the right. You get to choose if your trackpad is centered here or centered on your space bar when you have the numpad over here. That's a really nice little bit of customization that you can do. We have confirmed that our pre-built is supposed to come without the keyboard installed. That's a little bit questionable in my mind, but at the same time, if you're buying a framework and not planning on configuring it, just don't buy a framework, buy any other laptop that's not repairable. That is a fair statement as well. That's a fair statement, yeah, yep. The sales pitch for framework is the repairability, the upgradeability, the customizability. If you aren't even willing to just put the

magnetic keyboard on, and it attaches real easy, so like it probably isn't the machine for you. Yeah, and that's okay. Audio is a requirement. I don't even know why this is a dongle; they should just have it attached to the machine. Another fair, I think, criticism. I agree with that. They gave it to us on the third and then took it away on the 16. Ooh, we've got ethernet. Oh, look at how fancy it looks. It's right see-through. Oh, never mind. I don't like that as much anymore. It does not fit within the chassis. I actually, I have a bone to pick. I don't like that because me being stupid, I will drop it in my bag, and one day I will go with that end first, and I will destroy it. It should have been flush. The way that I think of it, it's a Wi-Fi for first device. Like many other mobile devices, this is a great little USBC 2 1/2 gig dongle. That's pretty cool at a good price. Very compact, compatible.

with anything totally understand the critique. It will not break off easily though. Thank you for destroying our capture. Oh, so the ethernet doesn't break very well, but it breaks the Other M. Oh shoot, the system locked up. Hold on, hold on. We'll turn it back on. We're just going to shut it down and turn it back on. Did I break the computer? Can you just make sure this still works? Hey, thank goodness, and your 2 and half gigs still works as well. Nice. Anyway, the point is that if you do put it in your bag with this thing in, is it the most elegant thing ever? Absolutely not. I wish they had one of the little hingi style ones or something. Um, but will it like immediately break? No. You just might have to reboot your computer. All right, it's now plugged in. Let's try turning it on again. Yay, input module connector board not detected. Uhoh. Uh, is that supposed to be installed for a pre-built? The input module connector board? Yes. Neat. So he goes and

double checks. It just needed a little click. It's possible during shipping. 30 seconds for someone who is so far above the average in terms of their technical knowledge and experience with laptops like Alex is the 1%. Yeah, if something takes him 30 seconds, it's going to take my mom 30 minutes to figure out. For laptop repair, my mom's good at lots of things. Yep, graphics, all fantastic. It appears that framework has done everything correctly. Finally, let's just confirm that the webcam is working. Also, is this microphone okay? The microphone switch works. Yep, as far as a laptop has arrived correctly, this one passes. So then, that seems like a W. Well, Alex didn't quite check everything. Unfortunately, there was actually an issue with our numpad in the top left region. The top left region of the numpad, what does that even mean? It was several keys, and it was inconsistent. Oo. So, we tried reattaching the module on both sides. We tried taking it out, doing a whole bunch of configuration, and ultimately, we couldn't get it working.

even after updating Windows drivers and BIOS. Um, so we had to open another support ticket and hand off to Elijah to give you the results from the DIY 13. I opened the ticket explaining what my issue was, as well as some basic troubleshooting steps that I had already taken. The idea here was to see if they would ask me to repeat my work, just like they did with Seth. 24 hours later, Framework responded with some follow-up steps and questions to help figure this problem out further. After answering them and responding back to those questions 54 minutes later, they followed up one more time. I was honestly pretty impressed that they got back to me so quickly, and then we ran into the same issue Seth was having. They did ask me to repeat a step that I had told them I did in my first email, and as an end user, that's really frustrating to have to repeat yourself. But as someone who did work in tech support, helping people fix their tech issues in the past, I can't count the number of times that I have

asked someone to reboot a computer that they said they have only to check their task manager and see that it's been up for 3 years. In my personal opinion, I think them asking me to try that is totally fine, especially since this is their first time asking me to try it. But if we dive deeper into set case a little bit later, you'll see that's not what happened to him. For my machine here, I had one more back-and-forth session, and then Framework came to the conclusion that we needed a new Display Kit. And if you remove the days I was on vacation and the weekends where I wasn't working, it took the Framework support team three days to reach that result, which is honestly pretty solid. My new Display Kit arrived in 6 days, and as you can see, it works. It took about 15 minutes to swap it out using Framework's guide that they both emailed us in that support chain and then included in the box with the screen. Repairable laptops for the win, that's awesome. As for our Framework

16. That's where everything falls apart. They killed it again. Who am I kidding? If you take out the weekends where I wasn't able to respond, it took them 4 days to diagnose that numpad issue. I was asked to send back the old one, and they did cover the shipping. I just had to throw it in a box and send it on its way. At no point was I frustrated or upset with the framework support team, and I'm confident in saying that they had no idea who we were since both devices were purchased using burner emails on credit cards that were not associated with an employee here. But framework doesn't come out of our investigation looking perfect. I'm going to throw it back to Lonus so we can hear the rest of Seth's experience. He spent almost three weeks chatting with support, during which they did send him a motherboard as a troubleshooting step. But then, after the swap, Seth was still having the same issue. Like Kijah pointed out, asking the user to try something once, that's fine, even if the

end user does say they already did it, but in this email chain, we can see that framework asked him not once but twice to try external displays and not once but four times to try different combinations of shuffling Ram around. I think that would make just about anyone feel like they're getting the runaround, especially if this is happening over the course of a month. Now, he did say some kind words to framework in the final email, expressing that he believes in their mission to create more sustainable and repairable devices, but that given the laptop was for his wife's schooling, he couldn't wait around forever for a working device. I don't blame him for asking for a refund. So, what's the takeaway then for you guys? It's what we always say: you should be looking for multiple sources of information every time, multiple media outlets, consumer reviews, to get the whole picture of a product or company. You are going to have to go out there and dig for it. As for framework, well, hey, the good news for you guys is that while you do make mistakes.

It seems like the impression, even from people who have a bad experience, is that you guys actually care, and that's a badge that you can wear with honor. That doesn't mean that there's no room to improve, but hey, at least you guys recognize it. This Reddit thread actually popped up while we were working on this video with Buddy buying 150 devices to deploy and then realizing that every time they opened a support ticket, they were going to have to go through this same tedious back-and-forth email experience. I mean, for an end user, snapping some pictures and communicating over a couple of days might not be the end of the world, but if you're going through that kind of rigmarole with a fleet of devices, you're going to be tearing your hair out. Thankfully though, the OP made a follow-up thread explaining that because of his feedback, Framework is actually expanding and changing some of their systems around their business-to-business sales model, meaning that other companies should have an easier time buying and taking care of

a large number of their devices. They even ended it with saying they sincerely give a. That is very encouraging, and while I'm not going to give them a grade because I don't think you can boil this down to just a letter or a number, I think it's safe to say that I'm still on board, and actually, whether he knows it yet or not, so is Seth. I realized, Seth, you probably have another laptop by now, but I would like to offer you, as a show of our appreciation for bringing this issue to our attention, Elijah's hand-fixed framework 13. So, hey, thank you very much. And as for the rest of you, let us know in the comments if you've had any experiences with framework that you guys would like to share. And while you're down there, hey, maybe check out our sponsor, delete me. Send me alarms. Your personal information may be sold online without you even knowing it. And you know what's scarier? When someone buys your data via a data broker, they might also have access to

information about your family. That's where Delete Me comes in. They help remove your data from hundreds of data broker websites. Plus, with their family plans, you can easily add your loved ones, ensuring personalized protection for each and every one of them. Their privacy-first design means each family member gets their own data sheet, keeping their online footprints secure. And with simplified management, overseeing your family's privacy has never been easier. So, take control of your data and reduce the risk of exposure to spam and scams by checking out Delete Me. And if you use our link in the description, you can get 20% off at checkout with code LT2. If you guys enjoyed this video, maybe go check out the first time that we unboxed a framework laptop. That was what inspired me to invest in this company, and so far, his investment is safe. I'm glad I did.

Secret Shopping My Investment

Linus Tech Tips is a passionate team of "professionally curious" experts in consumer technology and video production who aim to educate and entertain.


Secret Shopping My Investment

Secret Shopping My Investment

Scripts