We reflect what's going on in the country. Right? That's the nature of this. And I think we're seeing more polarization within our communities, within our states. There's some interesting studies out there about people moving to areas because they feel there's a more comfortable political home there. Yeah. So they're leaving places, you know, they may be a fourth-generation Californian. Right. And leaving that state because you don't feel like your politics are welcome in your own community anymore. So you leave to Idaho, or wherever. And then what you have is areas that are just more politically homogeneous. Right. And then you see that reflected here. I gotta go in and do this. What time is it? It's 1:20 p.m. Oh yeah, I gotta go. Okay. Good luck. Alright. She loves the stairs. Senator Lisa Murkowski showed up to her office today wearing running shoes. It felt appropriate because

For more than a decade, she has been trying to stay one step ahead of an increasingly right-wing Republican party intent on devouring everything to its left. In 2010, after losing her primary to a Tea Party candidate, Murkowski had to resort to running as a write-in. We made history. Alaska's made history. She was successful and returned for her second term in Washington solo. Her relationship to the Republican party, well, let's just say it got complicated, and though she continues to serve as a Republican senator, her refusal to fall in line with the party's far right has formed her political identity ever since. So I went to Washington to meet with the senator, motivated by a central question - how does it feel to operate in a political environment where the very idea of compromise has become a third rail issue? I am a little bit of a pack rat, but I work at this desk. I don't have a sit-down desk.

As you see, I don't have a computer in here. You don't seem to like to sit at all. No, I'm not. I'm not a very good sitter. I can't, I swear I cannot talk on a telephone if I'm sitting down. Yeah, people talk about you as if you are a part of this dying breed of people who are willing to have idiosyncratic views that do not tow whatever the most caricatured version of a party line is, or not follow a cult of personality and have that dictate their votes, do you feel like you're part of a dying breed? Oh, you know, sometimes I feel a bit like a unicorn coming from Alaska. In 2010 when I lost a primary, I think most people thought I was political roadkill. And Alaskans thought differently. We ran a write-in campaign and I was returned to the Senate, but I was not returned by my party.

I was not my party's nominee. And so I came back with a level of support that was so broad and so diverse and so unique that it put me in a place where I felt freed up to just put party politics aside. Doesn't make any difference who you caucus with, who you have lunch with on Tuesday. And I think maybe because I did have that near-death political experience, I know the worst thing that can happen to me is I can lose an election and be sent back home where I am absolutely positively 100% most happy. What I would like is to have more colleagues who are really open, truly and honestly open to understanding both sides of the issue so that we might be able to find some compromises. I am not afraid of compromise. It seems like the polarization has mistakenly led people to think that representing the most extreme view of their side is good politics. And it's often not the case. Not the case. Yeah.

And so I'm curious with something like labor or with abortion, how do you feel those issues play politically for you? I feel that my position on abortion is so in line with the vast majority of Americans, and certainly the vast majority of Alaskans who believe that a woman should have the right to control her own healthcare decisions. Abortion is not anything that any one of us would want to have to go through. I believe that there should be a lawful process for a woman to receive an abortion, but I am not afraid to say that there should be limitations to that. I do not think that you should be able to go up to full term and then say, I've changed my mind. That basically doesn't happen statistically. Right, I mean, in cases where it's a late-term abortion, it's typically when the life of the mother is at stake or the life of the child's at stake. Correct, and I think this is where those states

that are cranking down so much and saying that six weeks. Six weeks, well, six weeks, most women don't even know that they're pregnant yet. You have not given them that opportunity to again, control their own healthcare decisions. And so how we ensure that a woman has those rights, how we ensure that our policies are fair and humane, this is what the debate should be about. But instead, I think what happens is you have, you have those that are on to your point, the far extremes of both sides. So you have some on the Republican side that say, No, never at all, under any circumstance, not rape, not incest, not life of the mother, not anything. And those on the other extreme who say, Nope, a woman, she should be able to make that decision at any moment. Absolutely. Positively without question. And I don't think most people in this country

are in this bucket and this bucket. They're in this swath in the middle, and yet we can't have conversations because we get so emotionally caught up in what is being directed by both extremes. In 2010, when you lost that primary and you won as a write-in, that was with the rise of the Tea Party, that was an extension of the polarization of the right becoming even more extreme. In 2015, we had the rise of Trump, something pretty similar was sort of an extension of the politics of the Tea Party. Did you feel like you had seen this movie before and that you knew how to deal with it? Or, did it feel like something totally different? I think it felt like it was an extension of it. My race in Alaska was one of the early indicators, I think, of how impactful the Tea Party could be in terms of elections. Murkowski wasn't the only politician threatened by the rise of the Tea Party in 2010.

As establishment Republican candidates in Delaware, Colorado, Nevada, and Utah were swept away by the party's rightward shift. A shift that was triggered in large part by the election of America's first Black president, Barack Obama. The influence of the Tea Party on mainstream conservative politics waned for a little while, but elements of the movement survived, evolved, and eventually dovetailed with the anti-establishment sentiments that supported the rise of Donald Trump. Politicians are all talk, no action, nothing's gonna get done. They will not bring us, believe me, to the promised land, I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created. I tell you that. Did you feel like you understood how to handle the Trump era from the beginning? Or was that something that took a while? No, no, I don't feel like I fully understood it. I'll tell you, I was one of the ones who saw the replay when Trump made that statement, the Hollywood tapes.

It's the audio recording sending shock waves across the presidential election. Wait wait. You know, I'm automatically attracted to beautiful- I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. I just kiss. I don't even, and when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything, grab 'em by the p****, you can do anything. And I was just so struck by just what I considered to be as open vulgarity, and it was like, well, this guy's not gonna become president. That was pretty late in that election process. Yes. That was pretty late. We had been through a lot of vulgarity by the time we got to October. And so maybe, maybe, maybe had we just become numb to it. But I really thought, I honestly thought that people would not accept that. They accepted it and he became president. I now look at where we are today. And I see that the public is again,

open to accepting individuals that I think are so inherently flawed that it makes me wonder, am I not tapping into what it is that they are identifying as leadership qualities? Is this what the American people really want? Is somebody who is very narcissistic in his views and one who in my view put himself above country. That's not something that I, as an individual can accept. Walk with me and I just wanna show you because this is, this is important to see. So this is our capital. None of this area here, none of that is connected by road. Wow. When we're talking about our marine highway system, it connects all of these communities. I like this. I could be a weather person. Into Seward, out to Kodiak, down here to Unalaska. I was up outside of Nome and Golovin. $99 for a case of a 24 pack of water that you would get at Costco.

Wow. I get really excited about the map because it demonstrates the challenge that we have with infrastructure. It's what makes my job representing Alaska, what I think is the most exciting, the most challenging because it is so hard. It's so hard. I have a mix of urban, rural. I was the PTA president in a school in Anchorage that had 56 different home languages spoken. It's just this mixing bowl of extraordinary individuals. What's the story with this guy? Walter is a magnificent king salmon from the Kenai River. I brought him out of the river in 2006. He weighs 63 pounds. Unfortunately, beautiful fish like Walter are not seen in the Kenai very much. We're seeing with warming temperatures, with challenges to habitat. It's been harder for great species like this to survive. Do you think they're going extinct because people are mounting them on their walls? I'm just kidding. No.

I'm just kidding. Right now, over 90% of our food comes up by barge, by ship, from the Seattle area. That's not sustainable. And the prices are crazy. Right? The prices are crazy. If you have no roads, how do you get your food there? How do you get your fuel there? How do you get your refrigerator there? You fly it. Very stupid question, but how is there no regulations about inflation on necessary goods like that? I wish, I wish that we can control the inflationary part of it. What we do do is we try to offset the cost, the high cost of energy in rural areas by what we call power cost equalization. It's effectively a state subsidy to help offset the cost. You have some communities where you will be paying over a dollar a kilowatt hour. Wow. In the lower 48, the average is 8 cents. Wow. How can you afford to turn your lights on?

How can you afford to stay warm? So, these are some real-world issues. Yeah. That we just have to deal with matter-of-factly every day. I'm gonna go in and talk nuclear. Thank you. All right. We'll see ya. Good luck in there. Thank you. It's probably not surprising that a lot of an Alaskan senator's time is spent thinking about barges, roads, airplanes, and energy. If there are two things that define the unique challenges of the state, it's getting around and keeping the heat on. That made the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure law especially significant to Murkowski, not only in its substance but in its process, which involved exactly the kind of old-school bipartisan negotiations that she thrives on. I worked really hard on the infrastructure bill, and I'm very proud of the work that we did. There was a lot of give and take,

and I'll give it a specific example. I was making the case for funding for what I was calling essential ferry service, and Mark Warner, finally, he says, I don't know why you're pressing so hard for ferry money. I mean, that's ridiculous. In his head, ferries are like those nice little things that go across, you know, to some cute little island for a vacation. I'm like, no, this is medical. This is your basketball team. This is going to the grocery store in Juneau to get your groceries. And he says, I don't get it. And I said, So you don't get me, and I don't get you, but I know you know your state and your region, and I'm gonna ask you to trust me knowing my state and my region. And so we built an infrastructure bill that really helped America, and particularly rural America, which was so deficient in infrastructure.

There's still about three dozen communities in the state of Alaska that have no running water, no flush toilet. They operate on what is called a honey bucket system. And basically, it's nothing more refined than a five-gallon bucket. It sits in the corner; if it's fancy, they've bought a toilet seat lid and they put it on top. And when the bucket gets a little bit full, it's usually the pre-teen kids that get the job of hauling the bucket of human waste, walking it down to the sewage lagoon, and dumping it in a lagoon. And we wonder why we have the issues that we do with disease and conditions related to health in Alaska. It strikes me, this is a pretty obvious point, but like the work of legislating and governing seems still at odds with politicking and running for office. Yes. How do you reconcile those two different modes that you have to be in?

The politicking side of things? My view is the worst part of the job. Yeah. I mean, it's what you have to do in order to be allowed a seat at the table to create and direct and then implement policy. And the practice of campaigning is so superficial. Yeah. Nobody wants to hear you talk for a half an hour about the benefits of advanced nuclear. They just wanna know whether you support or oppose it. They don't wanna know the details. I wanna talk to you about the details. This is why people should run for office because you want to help create good policies that are gonna benefit our entire country. And it shouldn't be just about the campaign. I have some colleagues that are really great campaigners and they're less enthusiastic about the policy making. I'm exactly the opposite. I, put me in the policy tank right here, right now, let's make it happen. And more and more I'm seeing with every passing year,

with every new Congress, it seems that we, people, are coming into Congress with a focus on which team they're on instead of what problems are we gonna solve today? Why do you think that is? It's changed in the 20 years I've been here; it has definitely, definitely changed. How do you feel? I mean, is it possible to maintain optimism? You have to; I have to be optimistic about our system. It's not perfect, but it has sustained us, and it has sustained us through good times and in bad times. And it's been a little bit rocky at times, and many will say it's really rocky right now. Would you say that? It's different. It's very different. I worry about political divisions creating further divisions in our society. And how that might impact education and healthcare and public safety. We cannot be a divided nation. We can be a very unique and a very diverse nation,

but we've got to figure out ways that, again, there's something common with all of us, but you just gotta find it. I gotta go in and do this. What time is it? It's 1:20 p.m. Oh yeah, I gotta go. Alright. Good luck. Alright. Polarization in modern American politics didn't start with Trump and it didn't start with the Tea Party. Instead, the key inflection point was the moment Newt Gingrich became house speaker in 1995. Gingrich normalized a provocative hyper-partisan Republican politics that characterized opponents as enemies and compromise as surrender. The electoral success of that strategy embedded into the party's culture and pushed politicians like Murkowski onto the sidelines. We try to come together as much as we can, but you know, in fairness, it's kind of like your family. No family that I know of is perfect. Everybody loving one another and getting along all the time.

You might love one another, but you might not necessarily all get along all at the same time. And so it's important that when you have differences or different disagreements that you also be able to share them. We're kind of like a big family and sometimes the family's not always entirely functional, but we're all brought together to do a job. Why do you think lawmakers are more willing to disregard norms around civility? Maybe, again, that's part of the reflection that we're seeing in society. You know, people are seemingly angrier. When I was growing up, I'd never heard of anything called road rage. When you think about how we are able to use social media to anonymously attack people, call them bullies, call them names, call them, whatever it is. When did we get to a place where somehow or other it was acceptable to condemn people personally when we don't know them?

I think we see that reflected in some of what happens with government. We can argue, we can debate, we can win and lose, but we don't need to denigrate and to belittle. Do you think it's salvageable? I have to be an optimist about where I am and what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. I don't think I would get on the airplane from Alaska and come here if I didn't believe that I could somehow or other make a difference. I'm a mom of two boys, they're now raised men. You see how the power of example is so important with your own children. And so I think that it's part of our job, our responsibility as lawmakers to model good behavior. Have you considered calling any of their mothers or something to re-parent them? There's an idea. Hiring a family therapist. I kind of love that. I kind of like- I'm gonna call your mother if you don't.

I'm curious, do you think the Senate is sort of becoming more like the House? Yeah, I say that with kind of a heavy sigh 'cause I don't think that's good for us. The Senate was by design meant to be more deliberative, slower. I mean, you've got longer terms, so you're not subject to the kind of the whims of election cycles so much. Now it gets frustrating because there's built-in inefficiencies. And I get that. It does allow for, I think, a more tempered approach to legislation, to really thinking through what longer-term consequences are, and hopefully stronger outcomes. Have you ever had a moment where you thought about quitting your job? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Do you remember the most serious moments? Well, the most serious was when I first came back. I came back as part of an appointment. People will recall or maybe they don't. When my father appointed me, I mean, it was crazy.

Yeah. It was crazy for him to make that ask. It was crazier for me to accept. And I left them at home 4,000 miles away to come here and do the craziest wild thing possible. And it was hard. And there were times when I literally, you know, went to bed just like crying, saying, what have I done? And then, you know, you kind of pull yourself out of it and say what you've done is you've made a commitment that you're gonna serve. I get on that crazy airplane, I can actually feel when we've crossed over from Canadian airspace into Alaska airspace, it's just like, ah, it just kind of opens up and the air is clearer and your head just kind of opens up and you can breathe. And it's like, ah, this is why I do what I do. This is why I do what I do. That's how you get filled up again.

Lisa Murkowski Preaches Compromise to the Polarized | Working Capital

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