by the way, I don't regret the opportunity. The opportunity to sign to an artist of that magnitude, that's that smart, and all these different things, is a golden opportunity. The choice was either to do that or nothing. I'm doing that every time. In 2005, a 16-year-old from Detroit with dreams of superstardom had an idea. After learning that Kanye West would be at his local radio station, Shan Anderson talked his way into the studio to perform an impromptu audition and was promptly signed to Kanye West's good music imprint. Over the next two decades, Big Sean would become one of music's biggest stars, but he would have to overcome music industry politics as well as his own demons to truly realize his [Music] dreams, and it all started with one idea. [Music] w tell me a little bit about the power of yes. The power of yes, to me, the power of yes is welcoming. It's like inviting it all, you know what I mean? And that's also a song on an album that it's like I

got so many different versions. You know, I got like versions with Yachty on it. I got vers. I got like a lot of versions of that song where the production is different. It's just like it's a super fun song to me. And even though it's very light-hearted and very like just turned up, it's like it has an energy and a mindset to it though, you know. It has that essence over it of like, like you said, the power of yes. I know that your parents were incredibly instrumental in framing many parts of your personality in your life, and you've talked about your dad um and how he dressed and obviously your mom, you know, and the way that she reared you. But I'm curious, how did their professional lives inform your ambition? Man, I think they influenced me because I saw them work their ass off and be not have any money still. And it was frustrating seeing my mom cry over bills, you know. It was frustrating being in debt. It taught me early on that it's not

about how hard you work 'cause they would bust their. My mom would have two jobs, you know. She was an English teacher, social studies teacher, and then she also did like after-school tutoring, and it was like wiped out every day, like so tired. And my dad was a manager at the Airlines, and then had another when he got remarried. They had another business, and it was just like they were constantly working. And I realized it's not about how hard you work, it's about how smart you work. My mom was an actress in her own right, you know. She lived in New York for 10 years with my dad, and then moved to LA to try and be an actress out here, but her dream never fully got fulfilled all the way. When it was my time for it to happen for me, she was more than supportive. I think that's why my mom supported me so hard from the jump 'cause she saw that creativity, that spark, and she was just did everything she could to pour gasoline on it. My biggest early supporter was my mom.

for sure, she was the first person I rapped for. She was just super encouraging, cheering me on, and like, Yo, you're pretty good, like keep it going. Fast forward when I was in high school, right? My mom was already in debt, and she would be running up her credit cards more and more for me to record my music, you know, and print up. I shot my first album cover at Sears, and you know, selling the CDs around. So, I just appreciate her for seeing it all the way through, and she showed up my whole life, given the fact that they were really humping it out with nine-to-fives. And you come from Detroit, where not a lot of rap talent has had come from, particularly then. Now it's a little bit different, right? Thanks in part to you. How did you sort of even contemplate the idea of being a creative and like really seize on the idea that you could be a professional entertainer, given, you know, those sort of lack of representation of people around you that were doing that? Well, I mean, it was such a like

impossible idea. It doesn't seem impossible now. It seems like almost expected, but back then from Detroit, it just was like you better off lying saying you from New York or something, or you better off saying you from somewhere else because it just wasn't happening. I got super shut down from just like every angle when I would go to school and be selling CDs. I would get shut down immediately, teachers telling me that you know like yo what like why you doing this like come on like you got you you a smart student like you get a scholarship man you don't waste your time on this music stuff man. But now I go back to my school, they got a recording studio, a Big Sean studio in the school. You know I'm building all these Studios at the Boys and Girls Clubs in Detroit like because there's so much talent there. And then you look at baby face Ray, V peasy, ice SAR, vzo, cash doll, um Skiller baby, and so on and so forth. It's like a long

list I'm not naming it's so such a wave now, but it was not a wave when I first started. Everyone else in my family was kind of like, uh, but my mom was the one like, yo, just keep going, like, you got it, like, just see it, you know, just visualize it, and it, uh, it, it ended up working out. You mentioned that counselor, you know, asking you why are you doing this, uh-huh. What was animating you to make music? What was the feedback? What was the feeling that you were getting that inspired you to keep going into and to want to express yourself in that way? I guess just intuition, really. I guess just like, I just saw it, I just felt it, you know, I don't know, it's like can't explain it. I remember I used to ride to school with my boy Tone and just be like, man, when I sell out the palace, you know, the arena where the Pistons played, or like, we just, I just would see it for some reason, but that's the best part about believing and having faith is you

don't have to worry so much about the how. You just have to put yourself in the best situation possible and put your best foot forward. I was just putting myself out there any way I could when it came to music, even if it made me uncomfortable, even if I didn't want to do it. I just treated it like it was a full-time job since I was like 11, 12 years old. Do I ever doubt myself? Yes, I do doubt myself sometimes, and the universe always reminds me that I'm supported. When I have anxiety about something coming up, I realize it's just because that's a moment that's in front of me, and I'm not in that moment yet. That's my biggest thing when I doubt myself is I try. I sometimes get too ahead of myself. Oh, what's this going to be like? What is it going to turn out like? I hope that this is successful. I hope my album goes number one, and all these things. But I've been at my grandma's house, at my my

mom's house in the basement, in the room with no money, slept on floors. I been did all these things, and I was totally fine. You know, if I ever had to go back to that, uh, not only could I survive, I could probably do it all over again. You know, being an artist takes putting yourself out there, and you know, generally comes with some insecurity in that early phase of one's career. Though you have to deal with a lot of no's, where did you find the fortitude to just keep, you know, pounding the pavement, selling the CDs, you know, in the face of not always, uh, an enthusiastic audience? Like, just the people I surrounded myself with were sometimes angels in disguise, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's too ridiculous, bro. Like, I have like the rap fairy tale story that's like one in a trillion, you know, who gets to rap for one of their favorite rappers at the time that they wrote down that they wanted to be signed to, you know what I mean? Like, the story is just like too

unbelievable. You know, faith is like that invisible bridge. It's like you can't even see it, but you know it's there, and you walk, and you just know you're not going to fall. But there was one time where I lost faith completely and was done. When was this? This was when I was 18 and 19 years old. It's the first time I ever dealt with depression, and it was I W for yay when I was 16, and we were in contact, him and his team, like Don C, you know what I'm saying? Shout out Don C, shout out John Monopoly. It was a lot of people hating on me too, but it was like within the crew, within the crew. Yeah, because, yeah, I mean, I get it, you know what I'm saying. Um, that's a whole another story, but I truly got love for all of them guys. Anyway, after I wrapped for him and the contact was there, he called my mom and was like, Yo, I want to sign your son. I think he has the potential to be like an

a figure and rap and be the next one out of Detroit and one of my proteges. You know, I'm like, Oh, this is it. Like, I'mma do it. You know, and time goes by. All my friends go to school and right, and I'm at home still in the same room I've been in since I was 8 years old, sleep in the same bed. All my friends in school like, Yo, man, what's up? Like, what you been on, bro? Like, like, what's up with the record deal? Like, what's going on with this? I had no answer. My grandmother, she was like the strongest person ever, bro. Like, I always bring her up. She was like in World War II. She was a female black Captain. She like was one of the first police officers. Every Sunday, I would come for Sunday dinner. My grandma would be like, Yo, what's going on with the music thing? Have you heard? Like, yo, maybe you should enroll back in school. Like, and I was believing it, but it was like I had to put in perspective that

yay and then we're blow. They were blowing up too. You know, I didn't keep that in perspective then, though. So, I'm just thinking that they're not with me, and I gave up all my school opportunities, and I'm just like super [Music] depressed. How important is it to take risks? I mean, what's life without risk, you know? If you take none, that's probably what you're going to get. That's like an old bar to me. Taking risks is just exploring different parts of yourself that you know you may have never even thought was possible. They're pushing yourself to a limit that unlocks a whole another aspect of who you are. Take a risk. It's like, I don't know what's going to happen. At least I don't have to look back on my life wishing I would have, could have, should have went to that radio station and rapier, or I should have took that job across the world. Like, whatever it is in your life, it's like

just try it. You know people be hating on you for trying. It's like the beginning part of doing something is you have to try it first. In that time, were you aware that you were depressed or is that something that you've sort of observed in hindsight? I was aware I was depressed because it would bring me to tears and it would bring me to feeling like that I just was like paralyzed. But then when I went within, I found a lot of the answers that I was searching for. It's like after I wrote it down what how I want my journey to go. It's like man how can I support this. What's the smallest thing I could do. I could go back down to the radio station and rap. I could ask yo how you do this. I could just be curious you know what I mean. I could go to open mics. I could um do all these things. That's when I started changing my mindset, doing the work, and realizing that I could choose to be happy no matter where I'm at when

I did that. I had these other producers. I started this. I started talking to John Monopoly more. I just started manifesting it, bro. And then they sent the record deal in. But for those two years, it was very hard. And I just remember being broken down to tears, just like, Man, I don't know how I'm going to do this. And I enrolled in community college. And I went to the Community College. And I was going to start class that next week. And my mom, she was just like, Man, what are you doing? What's going on? Like, you could do this. Like, just keep going. Just keep going. And I remember I shortly got the contract from Good Music after that. And it was for $115,000. And I remember it was signed by D. West. It was just like the first money I ever really, really made off music. I could have sold my publishing for an extra $50,000, and I opted not to. Probably very, very smart. It was very smart, yeah. Yeah, it's worth millions now. So I'm actually holding back a lot of

emotions because it was definitely quite a time where it could have went either way, you know what I'm saying. It could have went either way, so I'm just super thankful that I had my mom there for sure with a contract in his hand and his publishing secure. Big Sea joined Good Music as the group was reaching its peak. His songwriting credits and his star turn multiplied, but so too did his professional and personal troubles, leaving Shawn in an increasingly dark place. This is sort of the dawn of the blog era, right? And there was this feeling, and we watched, I'm sure you watched it, I watched many artists that they get signed to a major, mhm, and then they think, Oh, the label's going to take care of it from now on, yeah, and then they stall out, and 6 months go by, and then they're all shelf, and then it's over, yeah. You never hear from them again, and that moment is one that I think trips up a lot of artists, particularly in that era. How long into after signing that

paperwork. Did you realize, oh, I have to make myself a priority? Like, I would come out and work with yay and work, you know, with the rest of good music and on his stuff. I was thinking selfishly then and being like, Man, when we going to work on my stuff? type of vibe, you know, and that wasn't the point of it. The point of it was you're getting a master class on how the inner workings of actually making something special works. The process was priceless. It was unbelievable. It taught me a lot. But then I realized I had to be proactive, you know. I realized that I can't wait around and I just need to use this cosign for what it's worth and not depend on anyone, you know, just try my best, you know. I couldn't make an album as good as yay or Jay or all these people, but it's like I could do my best. I could take what I learned and do my best, right? And I would started putting out projects and every time I put a

mixtape out. I saw my numbers grow a little bit more, a little bit more, right? The first one to the second one, and then the third one was finally famous volume 3 that I put out, and that was the first mixtape I did where it like crashed that piff, right? And it was like, like the, I did a freestyle called super duper lemonade. I remember that, yeah. And it was like, that was the first time I went viral. I remember I was getting like $500 a show, and then it went up to like 2, 2500, and I'm like, now I'm starting to actually make something. So then we did the BET Cipher. That was the first time I saw my followers increase like 100,000 followers immediately. I was like, this is like a moment for me, and like I feel like it was a slow grind until that point, and like I felt like my label was F to drop me, you know what I'm saying? 'Cause I had also signed a Death Jam at

that point, but for the last year or so, Death Jam was just like, Well, he's kind of just more like a mixtape artist. And it was when No ID was also the head of good music, and he was like, Man, we got to figure out how to make you like not a mixtape artist. I listened to No ID and was very uncomfortable because I made the song My Last with Chris Brown, and I personally wasn't my favorite, you know what I'm saying? I was used to like not doing that type of music for real. And I remember being in LA, working on my album out here, and DJ Fyfe playing it on the new AT, and it was the first time I heard my song on the radio for real. And I remember like I was crying, I'm like, Oh sh, he's like, Man, it's the new it too, this my dog Big Sea, man, I love this record, it's my favorite record out right now. And I just remember being like, What the is going

on you know when I was younger. I used to think success was like hearing my song on the radio and like being able to move my mom out of the neighborhood we grew up in on the west side of Detroit. I think that's a part of success, but I really realize it's not necessarily the action. It's more so the feeling. I would say it's almost synonymous with happiness. Um, I don't consider having the most money in the world to be successful. I think that's a part of success, but I don't think that is successful. You know, you could be successful spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally, and it all kind of like boils down to just that feeling of love and happiness. In that time, you're a young guy who is coming from a world where you are surrounded by real friends, like friends from home, kind of people that know you, people that you look out for, that look out for you. Now you're in the industry, and there's a transactional sort of layer to those relationships. You know, how did you emotionally navigate and

figure out how to work those you know networking and providing value to people but also not letting yourself be too exposed. Wow, that's a good question. You know, you have to pick and choose who you give yourself to in all aspects, right? This industry is full of people who are high all the time, people who are on drugs, people who are easy to be an alcoholic, a functioning alcoholic. Every dressing room you go to, every club you go to, is bottles everywhere, right? You're dealing with people who are really going through a lot of substance abuse, you know what I'm saying? So, like, sometimes I've experienced where people would trip on me, and I'll be like, What the? Like, or they'll be paranoid, or they'll make a story up in their head, you know? I remember Yay thinking that I picked Drake over him for some reason when we made the song Blessings, and I'm like, What are you talking about, bro? You know, Yay heard it, and Yay had been a real instrumental part of my third album, Dark Sky Paradise. He had

like he was featured on there like three times or something like that. Blessings was the last song that I got added at the very last second, and he heard it, and he was like, I got to be on the song, and I was like, Oh bro, like it's like too late. It's like I'm turning my pre-order. Comes out in like a day, you know? This was, it was different than how it is now, but at the same time, I helped him get the verse done. I wrote the verse with him, right? So it's like, All right, you put me on bro, so I'm going to listen to whatever the f*** you say. Like if you want to be on it, let's figure it out, and we'll figure out the logistics later. Before I left the studio, I'm talking to his engineer, Yo, make sure y'all deliver his verse to the master implant, da d da. Make this happen. Like make sure yay is on this. I wake up the next day, I called, can't remember his engineer. I'm like, Yo, did y'all send it? Oh what? Oh. I'm like

did y'all send the verse, man? I'm trying to turn my in right now. Like, I'm not an anr. I shouldn't even be dealing with this. I told you guys to send it, but I'm such a pushover at that time in my life. And know I just was like trying to do everything, you know? I'm doing this, I'm calling a master plan, just like I had no business even doing all of that. So anyway, it didn't get delivered on time. They turned the album in. Yay wasn't on the album version. I'm like, Oh man, he got to be on it, you know? And then I'm getting calls from the label being like, Well, you got like a super high amount of pre-orders. If you add this vers ver to it now, you're going to lose all this. And I remember hitting yay and being like, Yo bro, you know? He was like, Oh, don't even trip. Like, we'll just do the edit, the radio edit, you know? So I'm thinking everything's cool, bro. And then I realize

that it's not so. It's just like when I say these things, that's just an example of a lot of situations where it's like, how could I have even done anything different? Not do the song? Not take the song? Like, I help you write the verse. I am on call anytime you need me to, you know? It's just, it gets frustrating um in hindsight. But you know, now in this stage of my life, I've been sober for quite a little time, and it's like I be raw-dogging all my emotions. It's like I be facing them head-on. Back then, I wasn't. I was like, smoke weed all the time. I was like, drinking all the time. But that was how I was able to cope with it. But it was a lot of just pressure and [Music] stress. Yeah, so this is like how I do it, you know? No sound booth for you. No sound booth. This is like, you know, Celine Dion records on this. This is like the Rolls Royce of microphones. Sometimes I

get in here myself and like record on the reference mic, like just set up a session and just vibe out here. So, you know, engineer just you sometimes like when I when it's time to cut for real. I have my engineer. I just know how to like cut enough good enough for like a reference, you know. Okay, so you get a little demo to like feel it. Yeah, clearly vibe and impulse is very important to you, MH, and is having that sort of 24/7 access to be able to get your ideas out really crucial. It is crucial. It is because the music is 24/7. The inspiration is 24/7, you know. It's like there have been times where I had to like wake up and record a reference immediately, and there have been times where I didn't step inside the studio for a week because it just wasn't there, you know. You kind of got to like listen to that voice. The last time I wrote on paper like lyrics, I write a lot of ideas down.

but the last time I wrote a paper on lyrics was when I was working with yay on graduation. Really? Yeah, you know the reason I like it is because when I get like in that state of consciousness and I get on the mic, it's like sometimes you find a certain rhyme scheme that you would have not able to, not have been able to write down per se, you know what I'm saying? So to me, it's like a very intimate relationship with that stream of consciousness and like getting it out because you know you're creating something out of nothing. It's like real powerful at that point when you do it like that. You talked about kind of stumbling your way through putting that first record together and figuring out on the fly what a Big Sean album sounds like, right? Right. And I know you've talked before about feeling in retrospect maybe a little disappointed in the second record and qualitatively you know what was your process as you got through those first two albums and then of course got to the third one where you

really took the time to sort of dig deeper and sort of get into it a little bit more. Yeah, it was just not listening to everyone being like, Yo, hurry up. Like, I was everyone. Like, after I did my first album, it was like, You got to do a mixtape and album. You know, I remember the same week I put Detroit the mixtape out, Click came out with me, Jay-Z, and Kanye. Mercy had already been going. Then I put in the Detroit mixtape out. Then they're like, Oh, but we need the album. I was just too spread thin, um, just trying to figure out, like, Oh, this is album, this is mixtape, this is that. Oh, this is Cruel Summer, this is that. Like, even with the Cruel Summer records, like Mercy and Click, like, that was, those could have been just my songs because it was like I came up with the stickiness of those songs. The, um, not necessarily Mercy because that's really more in the beat, but like just the swe and for Click, I did the, you know, just did it real quick, just ideas 'cause I was

in a it was. I was in a mode at that point, and I think I didn't put the attention necessary on the album. I kind of just was like, Yeah, yeah, just okay, cool, it's fine, just rush it out. How can you tell a good idea from a bad idea? Well, one of the things I've learned later on in my life is there's really no such thing as good and bad. It's kind of all perspective. It all is kind of like unique to the actual person, right? Because it's all about paying attention to how you feel, you know? Does it move you? Is it fun? Is it inspiring? Or is it something that you're going to regret later on? Time is like the currency of the universe, and it's way too expensive to be spending on things that are weighing you down. It's one thing to write when you're in your bedroom and there's no time pressure, and you're just, you're there to create. It's another thing to create some momentum and be on the road.

partying out, promoting, doing work, and also being a rapper, yeah, and then also having to sit down, and there's intellectual and creative labor that goes into writing a verse, yeah, and being under pressure, yes, and like wondering like how am I going to stand out, and one of the things that I didn't keep in perspective is how much I was losing myself in those moments because I was disregarding the personal relationship with myself and replacing it with just like trying to get things done, and you know, I was losing the aspect of like Sean Anderson, of like who I was, you know, like the son, the grandson, the anime hit, the video game lover, the like I was just I was just literally losing all of that. Beyonce, we'll talk about the Sasha Fierce person, and I think there is that dichotomy. How did you sort of navigate that as you realize that there was this growing rift between the you that you present to the world and the you that you has to live every day and also is the sort of

creative engine that all of this greatness comes from exactly. Wow, that's a great point. It was too late for me when I realized that. So, I did the second album, the mixtape, the Cruel Summer, you know, the all me, the whole shut the up verse, all these like things. And then I was dug deep into do dark sky paradise. And then I was like, did 2088 with Jana. And then like, I was like, that's when I started doing the Aderall 'cause I needed something to keep me going. I was just wiped out. And if you look at pictures of me back then, I was like 120 lbs, bro. I was like, I looked like I was on crack, you know what I'm saying? Like, I wouldn't even be eating sometimes. How did the adderal affect your writing and your performance? It was still me. It wasn't like the drug. It wasn't like the Aderall talking. It was still me. It just activated, like, it gave me the energy I needed. But I realized that that

comes at a cost, you know, and the cost is how all of this affects your brain. It hit me hard when I turned 30, you know. That's when it hit me like a ton of bricks, like I didn't even know and recognize who I was anymore. I didn't even know what I liked anymore. I'm like, I'm over here trying to just rap. I don't even know what the f*** I'm into no more. I had to like reconnect with myself. I feel like I was going to self-destruct, not just career-wise, like I mean life-wise. Like I feel like I was going to like end it. I had to either like climb that wall or let it fall on me. Despite establishing himself as a star, Big C ended the 201s looking for meaning outside of music. After embarking on a series of changes to his personal life, he found new peace as an artist and new motivation for his [Music] work. You talked about having writer's block after Darkai Paradise, and I'm curious what was the process of sort of

re-acclimating yourself to writing, you know, from a sober place, um, especially when you know you're known for making records that live in the club, right? I think it was just like not having writer's block was just I had to stop writing. I just had to like stop. I just had to do other things and then get inspired and realize that it's bigger than that, you know? And I got songs that's going to live in a club forever, you know what I'm saying? And that ain't based on talking about drinking or whatever or smoking or whatever. It's just the actual songs, you know? So I just had to step away. The best cure for writer's block for me has been to not write. It's to reverse the words, you know? It's like writer block, block the writing, and do something else, you know what I mean? Did you ever have moments of anxiety that it might be gone? Did I have moments of, yeah, of course, of course. But as weird as it sounds, bro, I made an agreement with God and the universe that

like I'm going to always be good, no matter what. Whether that's financially, whether it's like, that's just one of the things that, like, no matter what, I'm going to always be good. I remember I met with Sad Guru, and I was like, Man, where's your favorite place? He was like, Wherever I'm at, that's my favorite place. And it's just like, Wherever I'm at, bro, that's where I'm going to be best at. So, I don't have that fear anymore. I used to have fear of, like, What happens if you lose it all? What happens if that? And it's like, That's not a reality for me. I remember talking to you in the moments leading up to Dark Side Paradise, and you were so proud at accomplishment, and you felt really accomplished. Like, M, you had mastered making records that went on the radio in those first two albums, and this was your real step into the album format in a way that you felt like this can stand next to the best records from O.R.J. or, you know, M or any of these people.

That's right. After you have achieved that, where did your mind go from there in terms of recalibrating goals and thinking about what the rest of your career would look like? Um, I think that you can't see the full picture, the full scope of things, you know, on the road of life. You kind of got to get to a checkpoint. So, for me, that was a checkpoint of seeing, okay, I got here. Now, where do I want to go from here? It's not all about making music. It's not what life is about. It's not about like how can you go number one again. Can you? I would love to go number one again. If I don't, I'll be fine too, you know? So, it's like you realize that it's more to that, man, because I had a conversation and it's like, bro, what if why we're in our bodies for this short amount of time, as far as as fast as time goes, what if we're here just to... The main part of it is to advance our

soul man and we sitting here worried about a job or like trying to make enough money, which is very important, but it's not the everything. It doesn't, it shouldn't take the whole capacity of your life up, you know, and the all the all the other accolades and things, those are great, and those are, you know, the to inspire people, to lift them up, that's, that's the M, that is a goal and a purpose, but it's just not the whole thing to me. I went through a terrible writer's block. It was after my Dark Sky Paradise album. I was trying to come with another album immediately. I was on tour overseas. I couldn't find the right amount of sleep pattern to get on to be able to perform and record, and I started taking Adderall. Even though I was able to finish my album, I decided and really locked in and did it. It destroyed a lot of my body, you know. I was creating this false dopamine in my brain. I remember walking into the studio and feeling like I can't

even do this without being on Adderall, you know what I'm saying. And that's when I knew I had a problem. It was depressing, and it was like paralyzing. When I did quit cold turkey, I just like was like, Man, I got to focus on me. I always had a spiritual side to me, but I decided to connect with myself and really like, you know, reestablish my consciousness and my flow and my relationship with God. And it really brought back the inspiration and just gave me a whole new outlook on life. So, I'll never let myself get that deep into work because working and our work are two different things. Because your life's work may not necessarily be your work work all the time. It's all about [Music] perspective. You know, at the outset of your career, you lived through the blog era, you mastered the end of radio, then you got bounced back, which was a huge streaming success. Yeah, you know, the last four years, we have lived through a

Global pandemic that have not only topsy-turvy the world but really fundamentally changed culture and music. How has this period changed your thinking about the art that you make and how you communicate it to the audience? People always hitting me, You need to do this more. You need to be on TikTok more. I just be like, I'm down to be on TikTok. I actually love TikTok. I love social media. Um, sometimes I be having to delete it though because it's like, It's too distracting for me sometimes. I accept it for what it is. I don't know where I fit in per se in it. I just know that I'm going just do me. I don't know if I'll be the biggest streaming artist or not or whatever, but I'm going just figure out how to put my message into these new vessels of getting it out to people. And it's not really based on how well it does or the success of it. It's based on if I feel it or not. Being an artist takes a certain amount

of selfishness because you have to look inward in a very pointed way, and you have to abide by your own impulses and your own vibe. Being a parent is the opposite. It takes nothing but selflessness, right? How do you navigate that as the father of a about-to-be 2-year-old? It's like a balancing act that I'm still trying to figure out because he's ever-changing, and I'm ever-changing, and he's the best thing that's ever happened. I always want to be there. There's a song on my album I wrote about him, and I'm like, I pray I'm there for every memory you want me on. You know the crazy thing about being a dad for me? It's like it's the soft spot. It's tender. It's like I've never felt anything like that. I always feel like I can make it through anything in life. I could do without anything. I can't do without him, you know? Yeah, but as far as finding that balance, it's a constant struggle because all I kind of

want to do sometimes is just be with him, but it's like I have to. I also want to fulfill my purpose that I have in getting my voice heard, writing a book, you know what I'm saying. I wrote this book. This was like a product of Noah inspiring me to get it done and realize that things don't last forever. That's one of the things that Noah has taught me, my son. I know your name is Noah too, but like you know, it's to like be present in the moment and know that the Power of Now is real, and we got to do it right now. So with your new record, you know, if you could sort of close your eyes and imagine a feeling that you hope to leave your listener with, like what is that? The feeling I hope to leave my listener with is the feeling that is the missing ingredient of whatever their life was missing to make them the ultimate version, their higher self. It's a multiac to the album, you know. I have these four graphs that

represent four different things. So, I got turned-up songs, I got songs that are more focused, I got songs that are a conscious moment of clarity, then I got songs where I live in happiness, like with the one about my son and all these things. So, I think that there is something for people who are going through all different aspects where the record can put them in the mode they need to be in and be a soundtrack to whatever they got going. So, you know, that's the whole point of the album, and I kind of struggle with trying to make the album all one thing, but I'm a multifaceted person, so I just made a multifaceted album that has all different parts of me. I spent a lot of time here, you know, um, as you can see, I got like all my designs. These are like not the official album stuff, but these are just like the rough drafts we had to go through, you know what I'm saying? It's like this is actually close to the actual cover. Did you know specifically what you wanted?

the cover to look like, or did you do the shoot, and then it kind of came into focus? Yeah, so we did the shoot, and like, it kind of just came into focus. Like, we had all different ideas. To me, the color theory was like super important. Like, the colors of the album that represent like pressure being red, focus being green, clarity being blue, and like happiness being um like gold yellow. And each vinyl has like an extra song that relates to that. Like, if it's the happiness vinyl, it's like an extra song that relates to happiness, an extra song that relates to pressure. So, I was just trying to do something different for my community. Did this process come together before or after the music? This kind of helped finish the music 'cause it's like you get to a certain point, but you can't really finish it until you see it. And I'm like more of a visual person, so I had to like really see it. I come from that like Virgil, Alo, you know, that schoola Kanye type scrutiny of like

not stopping until it's right. You know what I mean. I'm working on the music to like the very last second I can. You know because it's like it's constant ideas and things and like I said as a Critic as your worst critic you'll never be all the way satisfied with your work. You know what I mean. You always like oh I could have done better. I could have done [Music] that. You've mentioned that you have sort of transcended past caring what other people think but I imagine not transcended. I care less though. I care less. Yeah. I do care. I do care about my. I'm sensitive about my like I care but I do care. It doesn't destroy me anymore. You know like it used to like oh my God d760 said that I suck. You know I'm like oh. I used to like really be like 100 positive comments be like man there go one negative comment like this. You know it's like weird. Last year Andre 3000 came out and had that quote about not

wanting to rap at 47 because what am I going to talk about going to the Proctologist or whatever. Yeah, when he said that, I'm like, That's a good perspective. You should rap about that. I'm curious, yeah. Do you feel like there is any sort of age limit on your expression through this medium? No, I do not feel like there's an age limit on it. It doesn't stop until you stop, you know what I'm saying? So for me, when I think about the other things I want to do though too, you know, like author or speaking and parent, I feel like I always have something to rap about as long as the journey is ever-changing, as long as it doesn't get still. Have I ever failed as a person and an artist? You're hyper-critical on yourself, even more critical than your worst haters. When I analyze those times of what may some people may consider a failure, I don't consider it a failure. I consider it exactly what was supposed to happen, period. So I have never failed, in fact.

the times that I have regretted if it would have changed any course of where I would be today then I probably wouldn't have even chosen in it and it's always an opportunity no matter where you're at to get to where you know you deserve to be at no matter [Music] what you mentioned yay I have to ask you know obviously he said some very unkind things on drink Champs and you responded to them I thought fairly coherently and you know course with some I was drunk too on cuz we were on drink Champs so I was like drunk but I I've seen pictures of you guys and after afterwards uhhuh how did you reconcile within yourself to be able to move past that oh cuz I don't take what he says personally at all I mean you're talking about a guy who has said like I don't even want to say some of this stuff he said cuz I'm not about to blast him even though I'm sure he would blast the out of me

but I just don't take it personal because he said what he said, and then we in the studio right after, you know, and that's when I kind of looked at him differently though because, you know, when it's like, oh man, people going to say this when we get back, when we get back cool, or, you know, I'm just like, oh, we got to make sure we get a picture. I'm just like, bro, you said some foul. Like, I got a whole city that rock with me, you know. At first, when he first said it, I'm like, bro, I gave you 185 million records under good music. I'm the only profitable artist ever that's ever signed to you. You also talked about in that incident, you know, having pretty messed up business as a result of the Death Jam deal and the good music deal. Yeah, that was the weirdest thing too because it was like, if I'm old, am like, say you sign a deal where it's like, it's not the best deal, right? But you do so well in

the deal that you're owed a certain amount of money, and they still don't pay you that. It's like, yeah, I started talking about this because there was no other movement going on, you know? But bro, I've gotten taken advantage of for being a nice guy, for real, bro. Like, I could really have these people burnt the out out here. Like, the that I've been through and seen, like, I'm a solid guy though, so it's like, I'm not even going to do that. Did you get that resolved? Yeah, it got resolved. I took, I'm going to keep it 1,000. I settled. I probably could have. So you got some? Yeah, I didn't want to go to court for real and do all that and like Sue and stuff. It was just like, I just learned my lesson. What advice would you give to a young artist, you know, that is navigating similar Waters? First of all, by the way, I don't regret the opportunity. The choice was either to do that or nothing. I'm doing

that every time like the opportunity to sign to an artist of that magnitude that's that smart and all these different things is a golden opportunity. So I'm never on it. I don't ever want people to get that confused like like I'm on that. That's not what I'm on. I'm on the fact of like withholding someone's money. You know it's like you doing a job and somebody being like yeah oh yeah yeah I'm rich as but I'm going just like chill out on paying you. It's like but my advice is to just do the best business you can be solid speak up and get your paper and when you in that vibration bro things just come to you like God going to support you bro the universe going to support you and line it up for you in ways that you didn't even think was possible and you have to we have to drop our expectations and our ideas of what we think success is and realize that success is a feeling. It's happiness bro. It's love. It's holding

your kids, it's being with the people you love, it's sharing these experiences, that's what it's really about. [Music] oh [Music]

Big Sean on Music Industry Betrayal and Battling His Demons

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Big Sean on Music Industry Betrayal and Battling His Demons

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