ah now you stopped. Now we can say long live Stalin or what. And we are not recorded there. Slavoj Žižek is a big friendly Slovenian Marxist intellectual who spends as much time blathering on about Batman films as he does about Hegel. He's written about 75 books, most of which remain impenetrable to me, but it's his public appearances, both at lectures and at events like Occupy Wall Street, which have really cemented his position as the most broadly popular anti-capitalist philosopher working today. This is because, unlike pretty much every other anti-capitalist philosopher, he actually has a sense of humor. His latest project is a film, The Pervert's Guide to Ideology, directed by Sophie Fiennes. In it, Slavoj uses Hollywood Blockbusters to explain why the bulk of us remain so enthralled to capitalist power structures that we cannot even escape them in our sleep. I wanted to know why I was such a sheeple, so I went to Slovenia to meet the man. Hello. I hate life. Hi. You hate life.

running from Seven around hell of a day. Well, hi, it's me. Okay, whatever. On so we go my place there. No, amazing fantastic when you're in town here. Do you ever get approached by local fans or something like that? What do you mean by fans? People hate me pretty much here. I'm not kidding. I wasn't for independent Slovenia. I didn't care about that. I also didn't have any Yugoslav nostalgia. Many leftists have it and they consider me a traitor there. My nostalgia for the old times 40 years ago when I was young, you know, even phones were not used so much. This was nice because once a day in the morning post arrived and that was it. That was all communication. Yeah, then you know you are free for 24 hours. I notice you've got Jo St on your. This is just so that it not. I don't mean you personally. Idiots when they enter the flat ask me why do you have them. It's strictly for this. It's just to annoy people. Absolutely just to annoy people.

read on the front of your books. It's quoted that you're the most dangerous philosopher in the West. You don't seem very dangerous to me. Here, I must disappoint you. You know I am this type of a Joker guy. I mean Joker from Batman. You know, I laugh and so on, but I can be a Stalinist when I, if you give me power. I know how to use it. That's why I'm afraid, almost of myself. I don't want power. I'm extremely sensitive. It's beautiful that you were on time there. Yeah, you know, even in love relations, you know what's my motto. I quote L when he says, My fiance is never late for an appointment because the moment she's late, she's no longer my fiance. That's the attitude. You know what's one of my tricks. I like it when I give a talk or especially if it's a debate. It's good to begin on time or even a little bit earlier because then people who are even on time or 2 minutes late feel a little

bit guilty. You know why do you want them to feel guilty just because they don't ask stupid annoying questions. I hate debates. People think that I like to give talks. No, I like to write. If you don't like giving talks, how do you feel about making films? Because obviously, the Pervert Guide to Ideology is coming out now. You touched a very traumatic point. I'm disgusted just looking at myself on screen. So it's not some kind of extravaganza to say I really. I didn't see. I saw neither perverse guides to cinema nor this one perverse guide to ideology. I am too horrified at looking at myself on screen. Ordinary Americans, as Ordinary People in all countries, have a multitude of fears. We fear all kinds of things. We fear maybe immigrants or people whom we perceive as lower than ourselves attacking us, robbing us. In Steven Spielberg's J, the function of the shark is to unite all these fears so that we can, in a way, trade all these fears for one fear. [Music]

Alone smile you son of a b. Why is Cinema such a useful tool for you when you were trying to analyze the world mostly? The way I talk about Cinema is simply to use it to illustrate where we are today ideologically. How do we experience Our Lives? What do we find worth fighting for? What's the meaning of our life or small ritual you have to look at Hollywood where you get it in pure distilled form. Hey buddy, you going to pay for that or what? Look buddy, I don't want no house today either pay for it or put it back. Your film starts with a clip from They Live, the John G movie, which is a great movie. If we were able to put on those glasses, yeah, what do you think would happen if everyone in the world suddenly put on the They Live glasses? What would the next day be like? It would be the end of ideology. I mean, I think I claim that. Okay, I will give you one example. A typical boss no longer wants to be a boss, you know. Mhm, imagine this post-companies.

like some digital programming company creative agency a boss is comes in jeans. Embraces you with all vulgarities did you have a good last night whatever but you then he remains a boss. He nonetheless gives orders but the social game is you have to pretend that we are friends and so on. In this relations the first step to Liberation is to force him to really behave like a boss. To tell him no you no comradeship treat me as a boss. Give me explicit orders and so on sorry seriously can I give you some fruit juice or C I love some fruit juice please yeah yeah Coke I see so here it's included the cancer you get because it's zero which means instead of sugar you get all those sweeteners. Some films that you seem to be pretty interested in although very critical of are the like Christopher Nolan Batman films. This is how crazy Batman's made Gotham. You want order in Gotham Batman must take off his mask and turn himself in oh and every day he doesn't people will die starting tonight. I think he's a

great director. You don't think Christopher Nolan has a conservative agenda. He's a liberal. He is a liberal who is afraid of too much commotion, too much too too violent. He says this the one with Heath Ledger Joker. It really a Bush era film because at the end you have reasserting the necessity of a lie, no like Batman has to take guilt upon himself blah blah blah. And it's interesting how so it's the idea of feeding a myth to yeah, basically the message is our societies can only survive through a benevolent lie or whatever. There's a point where you're talking about Taxi Driver, yeah, and it that was a problematic point in incidentally in the sense that state secret. I don't like Scorsese, I the movie you got two SCH films in the movie, which is the other one, uh, Last Temptation Of Christ, yeah, but this was because but Sophie wanted me to do something about Christianity blah blah but my heart was not in it. I see you say you don't like Scorsese, but I feel like

you identify with Travis Pickle. He was on the right path in a way. Travis in the Taxi Driver. You should have the outburst of violence, and you should direct it at yourself, but in a very specific way, at what in yourself chains you, ties you to the ruling [Music] ideology. Within the film, you seem to use his, uh, his suicide as an example of what people should be doing, and people should be violently ripping themselves, uh, apart from the ideologies. But you have more intelligent ways to do it. Like my favorite example here from Fight Club. You know when he confronts his boss and then starts to beat himself. This is a much more painful, shocking scene than if he were to attack directly the boss. This is a better example, I think, if you want to do critique of ideology. If you want really to get free, first you have to beat yourself. I am Jack's smirking [Music] Revenge [Music] what the hell are you doing. Ideology is not only the world we live in, but especially the wrong ways we imagine how to escape.

there precisely when you dream how to escape from reality. You just reproduce the same world. I was in the London riots and you talk about the London and what struck me being in them reporting on them was how different they were to R. I'd been in Greece or I'd been in Germany. Yeah, every violent acting out is a sign that there is something you are not able to put into works. Even the most brutal violence is the enacting of a certain symbolic deadlock. I wanted to find out if you thought that this was an example of the true power of ideology when for one night the superstructure collapsed and people seem to be allowed to do whatever they wanted. Yet all they wanted to do was steal more trainers and consume more ex. But for this, I'm hated by many leftists who desperately try to redeem the London riots. They claim, and I partially, very partially agree. They claim, even if it was just uh uh attacking the supermarket, whatever. Nonetheless, it was a blind, large-scale protest. But where I disagree with them

was that they claim you begin like this, and then you make it a proper political movement. I tell them, Okay, but this second step will never happen. You know, it's like Stalinists were saying, Okay, we have some violence, purges, gulags now, but wait one generation, then we will have... Uh, sorry, that second step will never arrive. If you look at practically all revolutions, they happen when things get a little bit better, a little bit of opening, then expectations explode and are disappointed, and so on. Look even at Egypt. I'm sorry to tell you this, it's horrible to say, but you know that under Mubarak, Egyptians probably lived relatively well on average. There was a new middle class and so on and so on, and they... Yeah, it was the middle class that rose up, to back, yeah. And there we also saw, in a tragic way, the limitation because the middle class, there was no more broad popular left for them to get connected to. I think some people with Egypt seem to assume that because of this kind of revolving situation of cou all of the

revolutions have been rendered pointless. I wonder if you think that it's kind of the seeds of something more revolutionary have been set with in the long term. Yes, because you know I'm not a total pessimist. There it's not simply that we are back at Mubarak's time. Something did happen to put it in pathetic terms: Civil Society awakened. You have a whole network of trade unions, women organized, intellectuals, Society, social secular life. Neither corrupted Army industrial complex nor Muslim Brotherhood awakened. And this is something, you know, I always quote today Walter Benjamin who said that behind every fascism there is a failed Revolution. We should never forget that so-called Muslim fundamentalists are an aads for the failed left. The key event in Arab countries of the last decades is the disappearance of secular left. Take Afghanistan. Afghanistan was not a conservative fundamentalist country. I remember 40 years ago it was a progressive monarchy with a pro-Western King. Then they had a local Communist party which was so strong that it even

took over, and then, you know, Russia intervened. Americans supported fundamental Muslim. That is to say, 40 years ago, Afghanistan was a relatively open, technocratic, secular country. It is through its very involvement into international politics that it became fundamentalist, and even, uh, Islamic fundamentalism has its roots in kind of Psy tube and his, uh, kind of Marxist view of Islam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think so. I think that this is the big task today, how to get out of this vicious cycle of pro-western liberalism and fundamentalism. They're really feeding upon each other. I think. What do you think is going to happen with Syria because there doesn't seem to be. I was so attacked for saying when I wrote, they published it in a Guardian on the onnet that it's a pseo conflict. What do you mean by it being a, yeah, I know they Oho conflict, but people are dying. How can you be so cynical? No BYO conflict. I mean, of course, it's a tragedy, people are dying and so on. It's

simply a ethnic religious conflict. No big emancipatory Stakes are involved. Now I am totally against Assad. I believe in incredible brutality they're doing but with this poisonous gesses. Okay what makes me Furious here it now media start to tell this story. Oh my God. Uh they're poisoning their own population where where Sadam was doing this against Iranians at kurts. United States were giving him satellite photos we all know and providing him even gases. I don't like to be manipulated and shown by the media you see it's horrible what happens there. Yeah it's horrible but my God every Revolution is not only if it is an authentic Revolution is not only directed towards the future but it redeems also the past failed revolutions all the ghosts as it were the Living Dead of the past Revolution which are roaming around unsatisfied will finally find their home in the New Freedom. I know what will you do then to me then I have to sign some paper which basically means hardcore you can use me you can put my head on a guy.

fighting three women, and I cannot complain. I cannot. I can. You wouldn't complain if we did. I don't care. That's true. I don't care. That's true. Yes.

Superstar Communist Slavoj Zizek is The Most Dangerous Philosopher in the West

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