[Music] and all the rejection of God that I did. Now, this is an exaggeration. It was like stabbing them in the heart because they would weep when they would see the things that I did. And like I just met these. These were my best friends in my life. These are the people that really love me, really love me. And I'm watching my Life review and I'm stabbing him in the heart and causing him great grief. [Music] [Music] Today, we are blessed to have Heartstorm being part of the end-time prophecy. And he's more than a minister with great truth. He's a friend. He's a brother. And it's real. And Howard has given us this interview and we're going to talk more detail about his NDE experiences. And many of you may not know what that means. It means near-death experience. And it was a real event that happened in Howard's life. Many of you know and heard his story but get in more detail. Howard, first of all, I just want to introduce

yourself, and uh, then we'll just talk a little bit and get some things for end-time prophecy, okay, all right. I just turned 77 years old, and when I was a kid, like I think many people experienced, we were taken to church. My parents didn't always go to church, matter of fact, a lot of times they dropped me and my sisters off, but we went to Sunday school, and I loved Sunday school 'cause it was mostly either story time or arts and crafts, and of course, you know, I mean, how fun is that, um, yeah. And then at the end of our Sunday school class, we'd go into the little chapel, and we'd have like a little simple service and pray and things like that, and I, I was really into it. When I was 12 years old, I asked my parents if I'd been baptized, they said no, we, we never did that, and I said, well, I need to get baptized right away. So, um, I think it was the week later, I got, I got baptized by the pastor, wow, in the

church, and that was very meaningful to me. So then, um, I got this notion I was going to go into Ministry, Christian Ministry, even as a young guy, yeah, 12 years old. And then when I was 15, I went to my pastor, and we were really good friends, and I said, I just got some questions I need answers to 'cause, you know, I'm taking this stuff really seriously, yes. And I said he was from, from, har, he was, had his uh, Divinity degree from Harvard, Harvard Divinity, yeah, that, that was the big God is dead movement thing that was in Time Magazine. Anyways, I said, So, um, do we believe angels are really? He says, No, no, we don't believe that stuff, that's, that's all, that's all just stories. And I said, Wow. And, and so I asked him all these questions about the supernatural things, yeah, you know, and he just, Oh, no, no, no, we don't believe that. Basically what he was trying to tell me, we believe that you should be good, yeah, you know, I mean he wasn't too sure about heaven or hell.

anything yeah and I didn't question anything. He said because he was the authority. He's my Minister. He's the authority. I mean like what do we really believe wow and I came away from that well. It's it's all a big lie. It's all. It's all a big hoax. All believe. He's believe wow. So um I walked away from the church. I never went back. Never went to church again until decades later. Is that amazing just little statements that said and you from God being great listen to a minister. You didn't think much about God when you walked away. Listen to the minister say that yeah. He he he turned me away from the whole thing and um here was a nice guy and um we were close. I mean we were you know. I was just kind of like his special wow Prodigy. You know kid 15y old kid that says he wants to be Minister. Yeah wow um anyhow so I started re-reading uh different philosophies and got really excited about existentialism. Which is

there's no God in that. I just became an atheist when I went to college at the age of 17. I took FL philosophy 101, and Professor Dickens with my, and we became really close. He was a real atheist left-wing guy, and he and I used to go out to the bars and drink until 2:00 in the morning and talk about stuff. He convinced me that the way to go was no God, you know, just live your life to get what you can get out of it. Yeah, just live your life. So that's what I did. I became a totally self-absorbed egotist. Wow. It's a very, very good strategy. And if you want to get ahead in this world, become an egotist, become completely selfish and self-absorbed. You don't care about anybody else. Self-absorbed. By the way, Howard was also a professor, he's a professional artist, and it's just amazing. I know how people that attend the church. I'm at this lady.

came to me and said, I heard you bring in Howard storming. I said, Yes. And she said, He was every bit as against God as anybody you've seen. Not just somebody that didn't care. I mean you were against God, yeah. And that's where you brought up, made fun of Christians all the time, openly. Then people say, Was that stuff really happen IND? Of course it does. You do enough research and study and this movie after death that's coming out. Howard had the opportunity to be part of it, but it's going to have scientists on there to back up their testimony. So these are some great things where Howard's come from as an educated Professor, an artist. And then I believe most of you know the story. God's Bible college for Howard was not one that you really want to go through. It was his near-death experience. But Howard ler goes to college Bible College, becomes a pastor. But how the foundation that where you've at and what God's brought in your life, you did a wonderful.

job sharing in our church this wonderful yet very tough things you've gone through physically and spiritually but you have had the opportunity in this dear dear near-death experience uh how long did that last that you were did you have one time or different events that you went in and out this near death no no there's one thing and um there's there's no time in it but when people ask me how long it last I said longer than uh the time I spent graduate school which was 3 years wow it seems even longer than human time oh yeah yeah wow did you actually uh you you had the opportunity angels in your presence you know the Bible says that treat strangers decent because you don't know you may be entertaining angels on aw yeah well Howard he went into the spirit world and he met Angels did you ever did they ever give you their names and how big were they did they communicate in English or was it the thought process no no they they communicated in English but I never asked the name said actually I didn't

want to there was a lot of stuff I didn't want to know 'cause they asked me if I wanted to see family members who passed and I said no, no, no. And you know why I didn't want to see them was because I knew that a whole bunch of them weren't in heaven, and I was afraid if I saw the ones that were there, then I would know who hadn't made it. And I just didn't want to know that. And with the angels, because we all have a team of angels, you don't have a guardian angel, that's not true. We all have a team of angels, a whole group of angels, and they've been with me all my life. And I've given them a hard time because their angels have one purpose, which is to serve God's Will and bring us to God, yeah. And they try and try and try, and you know, a song I'd be driving and a song would come on the radio about heaven and God and stuff.

like that and right nonsense. You know, silly stuff. Or you know, I had students that were strong Christians that would try and testify to me, and I'd laugh at him and wow, tell them, well, it's nice you believe in those stories. I don't, you know. I mean, just blow them off. So, this near-death experience, I know you dealt with the Demonic world and God's world, but were you aware of your past life when you're in this near-death experience? Did you realize, oh, they did a Life review in detail, chronologically, my whole life, and it was awful because I'm in the presence of Jesus and the angels and all the rejection of God that I did. Now, this is an exaggeration. It was like stabbing them in the heart because they would weep when they would see the things that I did. And like I just met these. These were my best friends in my life. These are the people that really love me, really love me. And I'm watching my Life review and I'm stabbing

him in the heart, and causing him great grief, and I kept saying, Okay, we don't want to watch this, we don't want, and Jesus said to me many times, Watch it, you need to watch this, you need to, you need to see what you did. Wow, so it was tough. God was just right up showing you your life review. How you've been, and you sounds like to me since you were not a Christian and an atheist, there wasn't much good things that we would consider good that you did. No, and you knew that there wasn't, there wasn't any real compassion for other people. It was all about me. Oh man, God help me, you know, yeah, wow. What can you do for me? Wow. Well, going through that, that must have just coming out of it, I don't know how you responded, you must have just been, wow, I was devastated, but the good thing was is that Jesus always let me know that he loved me. He hated, hated the things that I did with my life, but he loved me, and I, I can only

compare it to like being a grandparent, which I am. Yeah, you know, your kids, your grandkids can be naughty and break things and, you know, jump and scream and yell. You still love them. You know, I can relate to that. You still love them even though they do silly things. Yeah, and God's agape love, you knew God still loved you even though the review you saw wa wasted life. Yeah, now the world wouldn't consider a wasted much of the world, no, 'cuz that was a big success. Yeah, I'm an by worldly standards. Yeah, you're living your life, you're a professor, you're, you're, you're a I've looked at enough, you are a top artist, I can see that, uh, but you know, talking to you, I didn't know you before, but the people who came to me said, you know, listen, this is a real deal because Howard was anti-God, yeah, and not just didn't believe, but I heard there Christians in your class, you give them a rough time. I did, yeah, but uh, CU, I thought it was my job to

knock that silly stuff out of their head. Wow, what did God use? Because right now it's very apparent Book of Romans 5 says let the love of God be shed abroad in Your Heart by the Holy Spirit. Agape is flowing and it wasn't flowing before. Yeah, what do you contribute that God did to allow your heart to be to the point that you have you speak from a broken heart, a broken man. Yeah, well in AA they sort of a universal thing is nobody's going to achieve sobriety until they hit the gutter. I, I went down in the gutter of the universe bottom. Yeah, you know you mentioned you felt uh you're in your inward man and we know the Body Soul and Spirit you're out of your body but when when the Demonic activity was going on you actually were able to feel pain without your oh yeah it was just as painful as if it was this world you know. I'm not saying this for Howard he may not want to say anything but I got a sense from

his heart talking to Howard in the past and listening to his testimony that these uh demonic World they weren't just slapping them calling them names. No they seem to be along the perhaps molesting touring with you sexually. Maybe I'm out of line with that. No no I'm not should so and I I you think about that a lot of stuff's going on in the world. We don't wrestle against flesh and blood. It very well could be promoted by demon demonic Powers because that kind of stuff was happened to you without you being mean. They were just yeah uh trying to punish you and you felt the pain as if you had your physical body. They were just giving me what I'd put out into the world. Now I hadn't done the horrible things that they had done but they wanted me to experience the pain that I inflicted because like when you hurt people you have no idea how much it may hurt them and hurt them like for the rest of their life traumatize them. Wow you catch that you're right it.

could change a person's life like that. Pastor did to me that a pastor did that and you walked out of that room and all of a sudden your respect for God and zero yeah because you're young you're impressionable and this guy basically had no faith in the Living God yeah and you wonder why is he pastoring yeah and you went the other way because it was it was a career making a living wow with all of his Harvard Education yeah. I just spent uh six weeks in the hospital and um in the early part of that time I was very close to death um for several days and ultimately um they amputated my leg because uh um an aneurysm had blocked the blood flow and the all the tissue had died um a lot of pain and I don't mean this metaphorically I mean this really. I knew I was walking on the edge of a cm and the CM had all the things that my animal self craved anger self-pity depression Revenge you know um just all

crowding in on you. Yeah, um, particularly anger at God for, you know, I mean, like, why me? Why? Why is this happening to me? You know, I mean, that chasm had all that stuff, and I'm right on the edge of that chasm, and the only thing that kept from falling in that chasm was like, God, I'm sticking with you. You're my hope. You're my faith. You're going to get me through this. You're good, and I don't know why this is happening, but it has a good purpose, and I will, I'll know what my purpose is in time why this went on, and I'm going to have a life, you know, and you are all I got, and I'm not going down that hole. I'm not going falling into that hole. Did this happen, you a recent amputation or no, right at the right at the beginning? The pain was terrible, you know, when the doctors say, What's your pain like? And I said, 10, you know, on, you know, the scale 1 to 10, 10, you know, anyways.

Um, instead of going down that hole, I became the biggest comedian and jokester in that hospital. And the nurses, and the orderlies, and the cleaning, they all told me that they love coming. They used to come to my room for no reason 'cause I always had a joke, and I always was like laughing and telling. No, I was not feeling good, you know. I'm like having pain, and I'm like miserable. And um, and they said they so much appreciated me trying to be funny 'cause they knew I was trying to be funny. And they knew, you know, because there so many people in the hospital are mean to them, and you know, have negative attitudes, are ugly. I mean, I act ugly and mean. And I tried to be Mr. cheerful and Mr. crazy guy. I did crazy, you can ask my why. I did all kinds of crazy stuff to make people laugh. You're a blessing to him, you know. The Bible says bettered enter Heaven lamed in Hell ho. And here you come through the near-death experience and he.

didn't get an exemption ticket for suffering. Howard he's gone through what Jesus said. The baptism is suffering. It's not water baptism. And uh, and still you're going through things. But when I mentioned how I came to see Howard today, I said under churches, a young man, that good young man, just a good young man. He went home, and I was telling about the parents were trying to keep it together. Howard said that young man. I envy him. It just hit me. You envy him 'cause he's in the presence of God. And yeah, precious in the sight of the Lord. Amen. Amen. For the death of his Saints. You'd rather go home. Yeah, I want to go home. And however this near-death experience is no doubt it changed your life, but it wasn't a free ticket. You've had to be discipled. You've had to surrender areas of your life. You've had to grow through this. Yeah, even though you went through it. Yeah, you, you, you paid some baptism of suffering, but also what we know by faith, and we base it on.

God's truth, we believe it. Why God gives glimpses to some people or not for their benefit. This baptism of suffering is God's way for our benefit, yeah, that we might just catch a glimpse of Eternity. Yeah, and I can tell when you talk, certain things trigger tears from the Holy Spirit, and one is definitely agape love. You know you've been in the presence where God is love, and it's saturated, and that's why death has no power, power over us, right? Pain, that's right. We got to keep the Eternal Focus. Then the Bible tells us, keep your eyes on eternity, not just in this world. Set your affection on things above. It's as real right now, and how you could probably Express stepping out of your body. It's that simple, yeah. Your being steps out, and you probably felt no pain in the body when you stepped out, yeah. It was there, yeah, but you felt much alive. How? How did you feel more alive, wait, wait, more alive than when you were alive in

the Bible. Oh yeah, my spiritual body is more alive than this body. This body's like, hold me back, that's you. You're ready to R, and you came out of your body, you're like, I'm free or something. Uh, but other people cannot see you or recognize you, no, right? And from what you were saying too, you can't just go and grab somebody. I tried it, didn't do any good. Oh, so when you stepped out, you tried, it's just the, the, uh, what would you call it? Dimensions don't match, right? You can't exactly, and they don't know you're there. They, you could yell, they can't hear you, no, but you could hear them. Oh, yeah, wow, that's really powerful. Yeah, well, uh, I just, to talk about that, it's just, just to try to grasp what eternity is about. When you die, it's not like, like you're in the grave, life's over, you're still alive. Do you know how long, I mean, it's hard to say. The Bible said, be absent of the body, be present with the Lord, uh.

I've heard sometimes people who actually brought back to life there may be some lingering, and could that even be possible with someone who doesn't come back in their body? Yeah, there may be some lingering time before they're in the presence of the Lord. Or oh yeah, and but the best death is if you really believe in Jesus, really believe in God, same thing. Yeah, he's going to come right away and take you to heaven that quick. I mean just now. But if you are ambivalent and have other desires, um, you may hang around for a while. Wow, and the bad thing is the demons. The demons are ready to pick you off because, oh wow, Satan's whole hope is to turn people away from God. You know, you know, atheists say I, I, I don't believe in God. And you know what I, um, Baptist pastor friend of mine said to me, when everybody has a God, the only question is who's your god? Some people, Satan's their God. Some people, people, you know, Jesus is their God.

know, but you say, when you, if you got some issues, it, they may not be as quick, because now you saying that you got sidelined by some demonic spirits, yeah, because you were still struggling with things, yeah, and you were sidelined, yeah. What do you think kept you out of going into hell? Cuz you remember, I went into hell, you went actually into hell, yeah, I was in hell, and I, I just want people to know that um, there's all these uh, made-up um, things about hell. Hell is torment, hell is worse than anybody can possibly imagine, and one of the things that makes hell really awful, really termin, there's no hope in hell. When people go to hell, they know this is it. What's the closest thing you solve to communication or fellowship and his hell with people or Angels? Was it just total H hell is everybody is trying to dominate everybody else, and they, they do that with um, physical brutality. It's just one big gang fight. The part of hell that I saw, there's a lot more hell than I saw, but part I was in is just one big

massive gang fight about trying to and you're feeling the pain and rejection yeah wow did you see anybody you know in hell no but you just were able to give a tour and I do want to say the people in hell were my my brothers and sisters not literally know I felt very much one with the people in hell even when they turned on me um because I I I had the same attitude and mentality they did when I started praying to God they became so angry and said horrible things to me and threat because you're praying to God and I remember you called out the name Jesus you didn't know very much no but that little Sunday school help I I went back to Sunday school and Jesus loves me this I know for I went back to that I remembered that and when I remembered that my heart was like I used to know that that that that used to be who I was and I said you know Jesus please save me he's the name above all names and yeah we must be reminded then they

overcome the Devil by the word of our testimony, but by the blood of the Lamb Jesus. There's power, there's power in the name Jesus. Powerful, remember that, 'cause you'll be struggling at times, we all do in this world, but you just simply call out the name Jesus, yeah, and you'll feel instant the grace of God coming to your ear. You did it not out of cursing, you did it out of hope, yeah, it makes a difference. And God did bring you to the bottom of yourself. I've heard your testimony, yeah, and I mean, you are right there at that point. You didn't know if you're coming back, did you? No, no, I wanted to go to heaven. If you're home and just wouldn't let you. Why did you catch that? He wanted to go to heaven, but how did God impress you that no, he's not going to let you in now? Um, I told Jesus flat, I said, okay, I'm ready to go to heaven. I want to go to heaven now. And he said, you don't have a character. You won't.

don't fit in. You're not you're not ready to go to heaven. You would you you don't belong there. You got to go back and you got to start living what I've been telling you about. And um we talked about a lot of things but I I'll say one word that is kindness just being a kind human being caring about other people you know um Jesus's big word to me was love the person that you're with. And I'm like I had no idea you know what I've been doing this for almost 40 years now since my experience and I'm still trying to learn what it means to love the person you're with because sometimes loving the person you're with is calling the police and having them arrested. Wow I mean that's tough love real that's real a God by other sin or not yeah sometimes loving a person is um having them uh committed to the hospital sometimes loving a person is telling them what they're doing is flat out wrong and they need to stop it you know.

but mostly loving a person is listening to them, caring about them, and seeing if there's any way that um you can um help and me you know give them some guidance. So we can't fix anybody, we can't change anybody, but we can help people. We can help people change themselves. Well, you said a lot Ling's not throwing money at people, no, not making them feel good. When Jesus talked about love, it is that other-centered, and it's not always popular. Yeah, if you're really concerned, um Howard, when you're in the presence of the Lord, I know you had this terrible time that the demons were dragging you to hell, and you come out of that. That happened first, right? Then you had the heaven experience, and when you glanced around, uh, you said you've got a tour. Did the Lord himself take you through a tour of Heaven? Yeah, yeah. On that tour, what were you, what if you can bring to focus, what were you seeing when the Lord's showing you, and do you think you're actually in the presence of

Heaven everything in heaven is so beautiful, and I don't want this to, but everything in heaven is filled with the spirit of God. The heaven exists because of God. It God's love is the energy and the substance of what heaven's all about. So, in a sense, everything is alive in heaven with God's love. And I don't mean like everything's animated and dancing around, but every, you know. I mean when you see the flowers and the trees and the grass and the ocean stuff like that, you just know that everything is filled with God's love because it's all actually made out of God's love. As, and this is hard to believe, but we're made out of God's love. We're a product of God's love. Well, God is love, yeah, he made us, did you. It's almost sensing like a liquid, a gooey love that's saturated. Oh, absolutely, and no envy. And what about marriage? I know Jesus said we will not be married in heaven, uh, but there's got to be close relationships. And let me

just just straightforward here uh did you get any sense that there's sex drive or is it just true ad is that a fleshly thing there there's no sex in heaven because the love you know of the relationships that we have in heaven is more intimate and more powerful than what we experience sexually um so we're not going to miss anything we're no we are going to fall in love over and over and over again and when I mean in love I mean like crazy love like we've never known in this world I know a man right now is on his death bed and he had a desire to get married again we talked about it prayed about it but when he enters Heaven he'll be full he'll be full he won't be some oh no I miss this no you'll be full or the young man that died the other day 21 he'll be complete yeah and what do you think that void is filled with it sounds like this agape love that just draws and fills us yeah I can hardly talk about

the love that I experienced in heaven because I it's there are no words adequate to describe it and I've talked to lot lots of people that have had near-death experiences and we we together it's like there aren't any words we can't there's no way to talk about how great this love is it's like never ending you don't want to get a Finish Line is that what you sense it's just ongoing and there's a fellowship I know the fellowship's sweet with the Lord did you get uh I know you're with the angels was there really that uh intimate fellowship and love for each other besides saturated did you sense love loved by the Angels or Lov by other people I know you wor about God do absolutely but um I highly respect my angels and I thank them but they are a lower order of being than us humans right we're going to be higher than the angels and the reason is is that angels have one motivation and that is to serve God whereas we have been given

the gift of Free Will, which gets us in a lot of trouble. But the good news is that when we make an error, if you um look at your error, if you're honest with yourself, you look at that error and you confess that error, which means you real, you know, you speak it out to God. Like what I did was I was so wrong. And then repent from that error, which means literally to turn from that error. I'm not going to do that again. I am never going to be that way again. I'm never going to speak to someone that way again. And you know, I'm going to try not to right, whatever, um, and say, God, I know you forgive me. You know the Forgiveness happened 2,000 years ago. All you got to do is acknowledge it. We all of our sins are forgiven when we acknowledge them and repent from them. And we acknowledge that we have been forgiven when Jesus suffered and died on that cross. It was not for nothing. It was the most important day in the history of

humankind, the most important day in the history of the world, and don't you ever forget it. Praise God. Did you sense the temptation of sin in heaven? No, is I'm saying, saying theologically, you can't if you got the divine nature like Jesus. Yeah, it's not that it's just not there, right? I mean, you just in the presence of God, it just wasn't a possibility. No, the love, the love is so strong that that desire, no, in man, this guy has a better job, more money, that's all gone, right? You're just, oh, yeah, yeah. Uh, I was talking to Alex, and Alex, he's on the other side of this camera. We talked about there'll be leisure time, and Alex said he'll have a lot of things to do in heaven, whatever you, whatever you want to do. I mean, if, if you want to tinker around and make a boat, you know, carve a boat, go ahead, you know, go ahead. That if that floats your boat, go ahead, that float your boat. You can do, and yet there's structure and

we'll probably have times beyond just worship in spirit and truth. That, uh, we can meet and together for worship. I'm sure. I don't know if we're around any city or anything or anything. Did you get around any singing or, oh yeah, that people are worshiping all the time. But the ultimate worship is what is called the Heavenly Choir. But it's not a, um, it's a gathering of billions and billions of souls around God. And they're praising God. And God, God, God is the composer, but they're the instruments. And each of us bring our own instrument. So, some people are, um, hi. I never could play an instrument, but they're in heaven, yeah. But they don't have instrument. We, we're the instrument. And some sing low and some sing higher, but they're all in the choir, you know. That is beautiful, yeah. So, you got to witness some of that worship. And that's the, that's the ultimate thing. But nobody goes near God until they're pure, you know. My wife sometimes said to me, hard and, you know, her, and she said I.

just don't understand sometimes that people are just scared to express an amen. Or the Bible says lift holy hands. How are we going to feel as Believers when we enter into our Eternal home? We can't just sit there and be entertained. It's got you said the instrument sign it's got we're going to worship within us the Lord. Oh, absolutely we not just going to be able to sit there and just think we're being entertained. You saw real worship of the god Heaven. I mean that church is not heaven but it's the most beautiful training in the world for heaven did into heaven. But I got a tour of Heaven as a tourist. You know as an outsider. But anyways um everybody gets to do exactly what they need like for example if you have had a hectic life and you just want to sit by a lake or by an ocean and and just relax you can do that for as long as you want like I want my hero is St. Paul. I adore the man and I I think he's

the greatest human being that ever lived, in my opinion. If you read what he went through with his life, he's the greatest man that ever lived. But anyways, I want to, um, when I get to heaven, um, after I greet my family and all that, I'm going to, Oh, can I, can I see St. Paul now? 'Cause I got a lot of questions. I want to know, like, his courage, his perseverance, what he went through. I mean, I avoid persecution, I avoid trouble, I avoid, I think we all, and he, he walked, talk about the Lion's Den, he, he walked into the lion's den so many times, and, and came out the other side, and, and did it again and again. I want to talk to him about his courage. I want to talk to him about, you know, so many things. I don't question what he wrote, you know, he wrote most of the New Testament, most of it's Paul's writing, some of them from prison, you know, and I am, and you guys have something in common. Paul was caught up.

too he had I I don't know what you call it. It was like a near-death experience. Yeah, so you got a lot in common. Yeah, with that and you know he saw things and how had a near-death experience. I mean when he was CAU up yeah and you know what he suffered and it doesn't seem to be fair but we don't do that with God. You suffered greatly physically and persecution-wise just for what you've been through but when Paul was caught up he ended up. He gave came back and he said I don't know where it was that I was in spirit or not. The spirit man was caught up right and given Revelations and things that we know like John. John was caught up but uh now that you go back and you can look back. I know it's been a while but so a normal day it sounds like we're going to have a time if we want to rest by the lake or if we uh activities did you see any activities going on. Oh yeah I mean people do.

whatever it is, they have a no as long as it's good. You know, do you think that people that they don't complete their life purpose here and they, they're Believers and they go to heaven, they don't live a full life that purpose in them. You think there was an opportunity for ab absolutely and um, they, the Bible tells us that we will become, we are perfected. The other word for it is purified. We become perfect and we do. We don't, we don't, we become like Christ and we have the kind of relation relationship that Jesus Christ had with God. We ultimately have that kind of relationship, which is intimacy. That's powerful because the Bible says we're not just the old man. We're partakers of the divine nature, yeah, and that will complete, yeah, but it, wow, I asked Jesus how long it takes and he said so. For some people, it's not a long time. For some people, it's a very long time. And I said, so what do you mean by a long time? He said, well, I can't, you know.

we don't have time up here, so I can't give it to you in a way that you understand. I said, you mean for some people it might be thousands or billions of years or something like that. He said, could be, but it doesn't matter, whatever it takes, it's going to happen, everybody's going to become eternity perfect. Wow, I mean, that's powerful, and I know it's changed your life and still does, and I cannot believe my friend gets out of the hospital, all he's been through, and thinking he'd be laying back watching sports or doing something, he just finished another book. The Bible says in Old AG, you shall bear fruit and U, it's powerful what you're doing and still doing, my brother, thank you. And if you could tell a Believer that's lost a loved one, and I know if they're not saved, it's not good news, but the fact many of us have saved people and friends that do die, and it seems so at loss on this side of life.

especially I was talking to Howard about a young friend of mine. 21 years old. He went to bed, he woke up in the presence of God. But what would you tell people knowing what you've been through, that when Jesus said, or when we're absent from the body, to be present with the Lord, what hope could you give, not only scripturally, but what you've experienced in near-death experience about a loved one leaving this world in the Lord. If that loved one has some faith in Jesus Christ, and don't, don't you even think about judging the quality of their faith, how much is because you don't know, because faith, faith is between us and God, so that we can't judge that, but if they, if they know Jesus, they're going to heaven. And so the bodies are fragile, we're all going to die, and we're all going to suffer, and some of us are going to die by increments, and some of us are going to die suddenly. What, but the point is, we're all going to die.

we're all going to suffer and to get released from this world, and to go into the Bliss of Heaven is so much better that we should um celebrate people when they die, and we thank God um that they finally made it up to heaven. Now, the other side is if a person has been opposed to God and um fighting God all his life, all she can do is hope and pray that in their dying, because you can be saved even when you're dying. I mean, even when a person is suffering and unconscious, they can still get saved, right? Yeah, um, yeah, salvation is nothing we do. We don't save anybody. God saves, and God God wants, and I know this for a fact, and the Bible makes it clear. God wants everybody to be saved. You, you got to fight God kicking and screaming not to go to heaven. Oh yeah, and how you also just gave a wonderful answer. The moment call that is how said in the presence of God that some people, it could take thousands of years, some a little quicker, but it

almost reminds me as children coming home, and sometimes your children got to work out some kinks in their attitude. Yep, not the God doesn't love him being part of the family, and God's not in a hurry, and we are. When you said that, that hit me, that makes sense. We go to heaven, and we've not, you know, the Bible says, uh, you know, confess our sins, don't just be excited about relationship, keep in Fellowship, but if we have it doesn't mean we're lost, but it does mean God's going to take time to get us where we need to be. Let me give an analogy that's awesome. My, uh, daughter went to College, finished in four years, did real well. Um, my son who lived at home 8 years to finish college, he'd drop out in the middle of a semester, he'd not go to classes and get Fs since eight years. I'm a at the college where I'm a professor, he was making me crazy, but in I didn't threat, I didn't threaten him, I didn't

kick him out of the house. I didn't get angry with him. I just keep encouraging him to keep trying. 8 years, and you know what, he's got to a great career. He does really well. That's good. Um, all due to what he learned in school. Um, he's a techie who works for, um, head, head of the technology for a professional basketball team in Florida. I mean, he's got a real high paying shot. All this stuff he learned in college and, uh, well, you and, and, and he made me nuts. Eight years to do a four-year degree, you know. So, we can sometimes, not literally, but drive God crazy because, oh yeah, of our own will. That's learning to like Jesus. Not my will, your will be done. That really answered a lot of questions for people when you said that. God may take a thousand, a million years. It may be quicker, but God's still working on us even when we leave this world. We're, we're not that perfect man we're in heaven. I think that's hope for people.

because you know people, people, people. Um, I heard people talk about one of those, uh, you know, um, Foxhole conversions, yeah, and I've heard people talk about their pox. You, you know, this is when people are in combat and they all of a sudden never prayed in their life and start praying to God and asking God to say, um, you know, that's, that's just as valid as if you went to Sunday school all your life and went to church every Sunday for the rest of your life. You know, God just wants us to turn to God, that's all it is, that's beautiful. You know, something else that comes to my mind when I was talking, that why people make salvation difficult, yeah, I think salvation's easy but working it out with this human will. But we can't confuse the two, make salvation almost the works because all our righteous are filthy rags. Well, uh, if you could leave a last word with someone hard one day, I will be Alex, you will be no more as we know in this world, the curtains will be

pulled, we're out of here, and that's not too long for now. Life is like a vapor. You get one shot in this short life, yeah. Not to make a deal with God, not to tell God how good you're going to be, but to really come to Christ. And one thing I really was blessed, God made it so simple to you, how He didn't take do a list of dos and don'ts, yeah, right. It was just simp. Salvation's not difficult. Now, understand, once you're saved, it's like giving birth to a child. That's not the difficult thing, but getting that child, yeah, good. A really good analogy, yeah, yeah. And that's understandable, but don't make salvation so difficult. And even when how I knew when I asked Howard, and I had studied for years, I have read his story, others, and I knew many things that if a person's just faking it or making up a story of being used of the devil, it's not true, and there are certain things.

you can know from scripture Howard's just spoken a lot of things. Read his books, watch his testimony. The unique thing: his life lines up with scripture. And yes, there's things you do 24 hours a day like the chosen Jesus had to do something every second when he's hearing the human body and how went through some of those experiences but nothing. It all compliment scripture not anti scripture so what would you do with Jesus. I hope you come to the place that you don't make it too difficult. The devil's a liar. Call upon the name of Jesus. Amen. Realize that Jesus not some church denomination where I Pastor or some cousin but call upon the name Jesus Christ. Yeah, the one who gave his life on the cross and don't don't think he's hit got a big stick in his hand. Whosoever will make come don't miss having by 18 in having it all up here. Howard had that up there and it made him. I don't know bitter against God because of bad

teaching by a minister or two and don't trip over what somebody else said whosoever will may come. God is not willing that one person would perish and go to hell, but that all would come to repentance. What must you do to be saved? As simple as ABC, a myth that's when the Bible says something you should pay attention when it says it twice. You need to sit up and pay more attention, yes, four times, four times in the Bible it says anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And as you've been saying, you call upon the name of Jesus and guess what, he hears you, he gets it. Wait, is that simple, that's simple, you just, you just across, that's how he did you sit back, no expectations, no anticipation, just wait upon the Lord and He will be there. Yeah, I love that because God didn't make salvation difficult. What's the old saying, uh, theologians, uh, the water so deep he with babies you can dabble in it but theologians can drown in it.

but don't miss Heaven Bay 10 Ines how simple as childlike Faith. Remember the name Jesus. Thank you for joining us here at end time prophecy and just remember Romans 5:5. The love of God is shed abroad by the Holy Spirit within us so don't hold back but let the spirit flow through you. And remember God loves you and so do we and let me finish this thought too. Salvation's as simple as ABC. See God didn't make salvation so hard that only the high futin could understand it but he put it on the bottom shelf simple as a childlike Faith. Admit and admit that you're a sinner. You don't have it all together and then believe. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and the SE confess in your heart. Jesus stands at the door and knocks. If you open that door, allow the presence of God to come in your life by trusting in Jesus and they'll get your name written in the Book of Life. And someday when it looks like it's all these big things do not

despise a day of small things. God is a god of Salvation, and he loves all of us. He loves us so much, he gives us a free will. He's already decided he's not willing that any should perish, but you must agree with him. It's almost like a wedding. The spiritual spouse said, I do, but you've got to say, I do also. Simple ABC. I hope to see you in heaven because of Jesus. God bless.

After Death: A Conversation of HOPE with Howard Storm

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