New York City, twitch streamer, was giving away PlayStations and had estimated about a thousand people are expected to show up over there in New York City, but this is what happened, the video we see right here on your screen, just incredible amount of people really breaking out and doing all kinds of different things. That 21-year-old social media now charged with inciting a riot after that crowd of thousands of his followers erupted there in chaos in New York City last week. He said that he's beyond disappointed with the bad behavior. Well, let's talk about the case here with Andrew Liebe, legal expert over Italy, but law, following all the latest on

these big cases. We always appreciate you joining the show. Andrew. Tell me. What do we expect that indict or that? Not indictment. I should say that. Arraignment to look like later today in New York. Well, Giacomo imagine there's no PlayStation giveaways in the courthouse, but it's going to be a relatively routine procedure and a remit in New York goes like this. You come in with your attorney, the attorney. Waves, the public reading meaning they say I don't need to see the charges. We know what they are, They enter a plea of not guilty, Then the people give them a new court date, The people in

the and the defense talk to the judge. The judge says, Here's the next day, you got to come in for their will be bail experience. I imagine he'll be released on his own recognizance. This was not a violent experience. Most of the charges are pretty benign. The big issue here is that he didn't get a permit. He was careless, he was reckless, and unfortunately for him, the top charge does not require intent. It only requires recklessness, meaning a known apprehension of danger and failing to appreciate it. That's what we got, Giacomo. Now, I know you live in the New York City area, and you have family over there that actually witnessed

this, describe. Just the level of chaos that we saw during that specific event, and is that something that normally happens? I mean, do you have, you ever seen any type of incident that just popped up out of nowhere? like that in New York? Well, let's tackle the second half first, and really, that's about thing in New Yorker, and New Yorkers are smart people. They're street-smart and throughout the country. Like, throughout, lived in Indiana before. People have these ideas of New Yorkers which are just wrong. So, what New Yorkers see is they walk down a street and they see chaos and they go. Wow. I'm not going to engage in that chaos.

Let's turn around right here, and then they have no drama in their life. So it's not very hard in Manhattan or otherwise, just be like, All right, I'm not going to get myself in a problem. Yeah, there's problems everywhere. Do you know what to look for? You know, where to walk away from, but this situation, Giacomo, it was uncalled for and unnecessary, but we have to remember this is, I think, a 21-year-old guy. Rose to fame, number one Twitch guy of all time. He has, I think, 15 million followers between YouTube and Twitch, and what is it? I'm not trying to be ages to hear, but what

does a 21-year-old mean? Experience. Understand about permits and giveaways, permits what to do. I think it just got behind him, it got overwhelming and sometimes I think the lesson here and this is the key. It's kind of like being a New Yorker. You have to slow down, appreciate a situation and avoid drama at all costs in life. We have a choice. Do we run into the problem or do we go away from it? And in this situation, unfortunately, he drawled up the drama instead of walking away from a Giacomo. How do you think that will bode for him then as his case likely heads to trial? I have very

little understanding of the actual evidence of what his intent was underneath everything because, as I'm sure you know, until those are arraignment. The people, the prosecutor, don't even give the defense don't evidence much less. You were I but what? I could tell you is I would guess he does not serve jail time. But I would guess there's some sort of plea arrangement. I would guess there's some sort of community service. I would guess that his people already working on these types of things. But it's a lesson, not just for him. Giacomo, I think that's really the key to it all. We have all these people getting instant Fame with social media. They're

getting followers, glory, and to be clear, I am astounded by them. I am buying them the way they know how to work these systems. I can't even get my videos up without getting blocked after the time to know how to work a TikTok or Twitch or YouTube and know how to take it properly. Amazing. But at the end of the day, the lesson here is not, Oh, I could do it, and then I'll get a plea. The lesson here is, How do you figure out what the rules are? How do you get permits? How do you get the right amount of security? Obviously, if you have 15 million followers approximately, you say free PlayStation fives, I want

to PlayStation five. So in the lesson here is slow down and get a group of people around you a legal. Counsel. Security officers, if you're not prepared for that, don't seek the fame, it comes with a price. Fame comes with a price and I hope he and other YouTubers and people like him are learning that and knowing just the magnitude of his following on Twitter and across other social media. Platforms. Do you think that's something that a judge or jury? May consider? As they? As they look into this? But of course, you say you think that a deal may be reached. I think the judge is going to

think the look at the magnitude, but his experience and where he's coming from. And I don't think it's just the judge, the prosecutor, and I think good can come of this. You see, we often talk, you and I, about the criminal justice system, and a lot of people have this Western philosophy. I want to say West arm in the old west, not thing Western verse Eastern like China, old west of, we have to do punishment, we have to punish those bad. We have to punish, but really, that's not the point of the Criminal Justice System. System, the point of the Well, justice system is how do we maintain Law and Order? and get the most productive

citizens in society? With the least amount of cost on society? And I think everyone involved is going to see this as a mistake. Obviously, he didn't want to have a riot. That's not what he was looking for here. I don't believe so. At least, I think what he was trying to do is get a great video with lots of people and be able to help his business keep going. He was reckless; he was careless. I think there's no doubt about that from my point of view. But I think what's going to happen is everyone's going to look at this as an opportunity. A moment we should seize that moment.

and hopefully the judge is smart enough and the prosecutor to say, how do we stop other people from using and this is the key word. speech. in a dangerous manner. there's a big topic we've been having over and over again. Jacquimo freedom of speech has its limits. And this is exactly the textbook we called hornbook in law. The hornbook. experience of don't yell fire in a crowded building. that's what he did. He created chaos and we have to be very careful about that and people platforms any one of the platform needs to one the power of their platform because you are responsible for a Giacomo came up in the wake of what has happened. He put

out a statement saying that he's quote Beyond disappointed by what happened. He showed a bit of remorse. You know. Do you think it'll be fair? Or that'll be part of the consideration? That, you know, perhaps a judge chalks it up to just, you know, young person had has a lot of followers. Didn't expect for this to turn. Nowt, and some type of slap on the wrist, or community service. That's what I would expect. I don't think it's dismissed under any stretch of the imagination. I think he has some serious problems here and it's real and he's got a day in court right now and you all might be saying out there. Well, I think

he should get punished twice. You get special privileges until special walk into a court as a criminal defendant. You don't see the awesomeness of how little you are and how big the government is today. He's going to have a pit in her stomach. It's going to drop down. you don't realize that today, his whole world view has already changed. when he walks into that courthouse and he understands that he had freedoms. except when the judge doesn't want him to have freedoms. So yes, it's going to be, I believe some sort of deal he will have to pay. Fine. they'll probably be some sort of community service, I would hope he has to use

his platform for good. There's an opportunity here to teach the public to create a better society. And really, isn't that the point you and I pay for the judge? You and I pay for the courthouse. You and I pay for all the people that work at all courthouse. Isn't our goal as a citizenry that pays these taxes to leverage this moment, isn't it the best for all of society? To leverage this moment? And teach everyone that when people have a platform, they have to use it responsibly. And maybe if we don't want this to be the only penalty, maybe our New York State Legislature should add charges for people that use a platform.

it responsibly. But as of right now, I expect on the charges. He's being charged with there to be some sort of plea agreement. Some sort of community service. So I'm sort of fine and some sort of making an example of this. But not necessarily a lock 'em up, throw away. The key thing Giacomo, and meanwhile for other social media stars, or influence or, and I know there's many out there, are many seeking to have major followings. Such as caixa not in such case. What lesson can be learned and what is the right way to go about trying to host such event like that. Such as giving away PlayStations, I love this question. We have to

start off with realizing that there's loss. There's always going to be a law. And I think it's really confusing and unfair to an influencer or just anyone. Someone who works at the supermarket. Someone who's an accountant. Someone who works for the gas station. Someone who's a teacher or social worker. The way our laws are written are so confusing. Why? Because there's not just the federal laws, and there's not just the state laws, but then there's city laws and county laws and town laws and village laws. And I'm going to suggest to you that there's a great website called. There's a e, and you can find local laws. And when you're

dealing with doing a situation like a, I don't know rally or a giveaway. or anything else. there's what's called zoning laws and the local laws, the city in New York City, New York City Administrative Code, you could find that oniy code has rules about what you can do. And where, and how to get permits And by the way, you can ask for the police to give you security and there's ways ways to deal with. that I think the main lesson here is to start with understanding the laws. paying the money for the security, if you have to getting the police involved, if you have to instead of asking for forgiveness. ask for permission planet,

right? Do it twice. Don't have a problem. And then you say thank you twice. And last question I have on this, there were some 65 other teenagers and young people arrested in that same day. Of course, there are damages to vehicles and a lot of kind of back and forth between police officers and the people who were there at that event, if you will. What do you expect happens to them? We'll just to be clear the riding in the first degree, which is some of the charges, is for years in jail. You can go to jail for four years. So I'm making this as I don't think they're going to have a big jail

thing. But it's quite possible. If a person was involved in damaging property, they probably will get something. They're going to have some sort of problem if they were the person damaging a vehicle. I'm differentiating Chi because he wasn't involved in that aspect involved in. I think he made a mistake and it got out of hand. He was reckless. But anyone who was riding, hooting, damaging. Those types of people could easily face jail time, and oftentimes these days, and I think it's a good opportunity to say this. Giacomo, people talking about the two-tier justice system, and they talk about, and they say these days, it's about Republicans.

versus Democrats. A lot of times, people, I'd say, but that's not what the two-tiered justice system means. It's about wealth versus poor and unfortunate. Gonna have great legal representation or, fortunately for him, and he's going to be able to deal with this the right way because he's famous. Unfortunately, telling you that when you follow an influencer and you're not famous and you don't have money and you're not going to be able to get the best attorneys, the best legal representation. You're going to be in the bottom tier of that two-tier justice system. It's just reality. And there's great public defenders out there.

there for free. So I don't want to underestimate their abilities whatsoever. They're just overworked and overwhelmed often, but if you're in that lower-tier system, you could be hung out to dry if you were damaging something. So next time you hear about a giveaway or something else, do it. Like I said, like the New Yorker before, go there. If you see chaos, walk the other way. We need to do that more in society. Don't run in and inflame the violence. Walk away from the violence. Disperse, go get yourself an ice cream cone, call it a day. It's over. That's the way to deal

with a job, Mama. Andrew, liebe, legal expert, always. Appreciate. Having you on the show. Anything I haven't asked you, anything I haven't asked to add. I think you hit it really, really well today. And I think it's an important conversation to emphasize again the First Amendment. That's what he's going to say. You know, that's what we'd all say. All he did was talk. The First Amendment is not absolute. And there are rules, and we have to, I think this is the key to it all, Giacomo. It's not just all about you. It's about everyone around you, and you have to appreciate how your actions are going to

impact your neighbors. And I think that's the lesson from today. I always think about how what you're doing is going to impact your neighbors because we have a responsibility as a society to care for one another and at least we should be trying and be conscious as much as we can to help. Society get better ourselves. So, thanks for having me on Giacomo. Thanks so much anther. Andrew leave there. an attorney over in New attorney City and the New York area, we

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