[Music] So one thing I wanted to ask you about is your episode in college. So I'm working at the computer lab because nerds, that's what we do, we work at computer labs. And um, and I was like obnoxious, and I was like the man, and non-conformist, and you know, yeah, I don't care about anything, and that you know, whatever. I was really annoying, and I had my girlfriend at the time to this small college in Pennsylvania. And um, and so I decided to be super cool and like hack the mail server. This is like '95, so this is like when email was pretty new and the internet was pretty new. And I hacked very easily, like there was no security because nobody knew anything at the time. So I hacked their email servers and sent an email out basically saying, you know, you know, this college sucks, and you know, you know, this is your, this is, you know, whatever, like, you know, take down the system. And like, I was just trying to impress my girlfriend.

I wrote this dumb thing. Oh man, all from my workstation where I was working at the computer lab, where they easily traced the IP back and the timestamp of, oh, who was working there then. And I uh immediately got fired and was put on academic probation. And uh, that's when I stopped hacking. There you go, gotcha, sorry. That's when I was like, this is not for me. But like the thing about hackers, 'cause it's the weird thing is, is that it's not about going onto a system and like looking through the code and seeing, so I'm having some sort of Nirvana experience in this at the screen. Hacking is all about like finding flaws and exploiting flaws and finding human mistakes in systems. And sometimes it's not necessarily even anything on a computer. It's like one of the hacks, like you know the popular hacks that people do is the phishing scams, which don't involve anything but getting someone to be tricked into taking a CD or picking up a USB on a park in a

parking lot um and then the other thing is that because a lot of my friends were in Tech and some of them were hackers, that there's a subculture there that's kind of interesting, and they do feel, uh, I don't mean the generaliz, it's not all of them, but a lot of them do feel a little ostracized, and a lot of them do have a lot of social anx. Um, this was never, I mean, John Travolta does not have social anxiety in Swordfish, does he? No, I mean, he's quirky, but no, no, yeah, more of a fanboy than a nerd, yeah, yeah, and Angelina Jolie, right, and hackers will never have social anxiety, right? So anyway, that was the, it was the, again, I go back to character, the psychology of a hacker, I just never saw portrayed. This is part of what I found so striking about the show was sort of, it's all about power, power on the surface, but it's also all about kind of alienation and

loneliness and dislocation and um the sort of bizarre way in which Elliot's actually trying to he's having these people to find a forge a connection with them um. I mean maybe you could talk a little bit a little bit more about that as a kind of theme that runs through you know. I did want to talk about loneliness but I felt like the irony of this whole because I wanted to talk about loneliness in the context of today in the context of modern technology. How supposedly all these tools are there meant to connect us um but how it it actually feels like it's isolating us even more. And the one thing that the irony of the of the whole thing with Elliot is that he knows all the all these intimate details about everybody around them but he doesn't know them. And that's the trap that I think technology kind of lures us into. So if we oh you know look baby pictures and you know okay so I got my fill of Aunt you know Jenny and she's cuz I've seen her baby.

pictures, and I don't need to actually call her or talk to her, or maybe I'll just send a text Emoji. What an emoji? Yeah, my emotions will be a smiley face or whatever. I mean, you're not, I mean, and then that's it, and then it stops there, right? And what are going to be the, you know, what are the side effects of that? Um, and I remember there was a TED Talk that actually said there was some survey taken from the '60s to now where a person per square footage is actually in America, it's actually more, and we have less best friends, we would call, consider best friends. So, we're getting more lonely, and we're getting more physically more isolated, which I think has a lot to do with technology, unfortunately, because I think it gives the illusion of intimacy, and I think that's sort of the thing that we've been able to mine with Elliott and sort of the irony of his character, like do that. It does the details that you put out there, and the

personality that you put out there is that actually the same thing as knowing the person.

Sam Esmail on Computer Hacking and Loneliness | The New Yorker Festival

Sam Esmail on Computer Hacking and Loneliness | The New Yorker Festival