Today, we will have an interview with Jjua. Hello, Jjua. 

Yes, hello. 

Could you please introduce yourself briefly? 

Hello, I have worked in a public enterprise for 24 years, and I retired early in September 2023. Currently, I am living off stock investments and dividends as an unemployed YouTuber. I started my YouTube channel as a hobby, and since I began sharing my investment philosophy and revealing my accounts, I have received some positive feedback. Fortunately, I was also able to write a book recently, which is why I am here at Woongdal Bookstore today. I hope to have a fun interview. 

You are somewhat of a legend, having sold your house to go all-in on stocks, quitting your job at a public enterprise, and now being known as an investor who receives 10 million won in monthly dividends.

You are known for publicly sharing your account on YouTube. Before we start, could you show us your investment amount and returns? 

First of all, I want to mention that when I do interviews on other channels, there are times when I might say something sensational, like selling my house and going all-in. In reality, I have made two short-term investments during my investment period. However, I believe that one should have a stable residence, and I currently own an apartment without any loans. 

Over the past 24 years, I have consistently invested more than half of my salary in stocks. I haven't spent a single penny on luxuries and have always invested everything. Therefore, due to the time value of money and the reinvestment of dividends, it is a bit challenging to calculate the exact return on investment. I do organize my data monthly in Excel.

They say, How will you live your whole life like this? But actually, it makes long-term investing a bit difficult. If we look at the amount, I think the profit is around 1 billion, maybe a little over that. And as I continue with long-term investments, I also become somewhat insensitive to the fluctuations. To be honest, I don't keep a detailed household account. However, I always check the monthly statements that my financial advisor sends me, so I keep track of my balance. Additionally, I regularly disclose my account and the stocks I hold on YouTube, so you can get a rough idea of the trends. As you can see on the screen, if we look at my lifetime investment income, the total investment amount is about 1.8 billion, which is my total salary for 2024. This includes my husband and me combined. The retirement fund is about 460 million, but regarding the retirement fund...

I have about 220 million, and the rest is my retirement severance pay. Since I retired early, my honorary retirement pay seems to be around that amount. Additionally, my living expenses are about 1.3 billion. Recently, prices have risen significantly, so I've had to spend more. Overall, it's roughly around 1 billion. 

As for my asset valuation, my stock account fluctuates between 1 billion and 1.6 billion. The real estate is valued between 1 billion and 2.6 billion. So, that gives us a rough estimate. The investment income can be calculated by subtracting the investment amount from the asset valuation, which fluctuates around 1.6 billion. 

In total, I have invested 1 billion, and my stock account is at 1.6 billion, with real estate valued at 1 billion, making a total of 2.6 billion. Yes, I do have separate filings for that. Additionally, my husband has also retired, so there will be additional severance pay coming in.

I will come in, right? So I would like to show you all my investment income. As I mentioned earlier, I am not someone who organizes this on a monthly basis, but I have brought income data from the last three years. The reason is that when I first started investing in pottery, the returns were not that high. Since the amounts were small, I have actually seen a significant increase in the amounts recently. If you look at this, I have captured two accounts. One has about 40 million won, and in 2023, there is another 58 million won. For the year 2024, it is currently around 76 million won, but not all of it has come in yet. There are still dividends pending. If you look at the lower part, we have detailed the three years' worth of data here. So, the realized profit and loss is about 72 million won, and below that, there are two or three accounts.

I see that each account is displayed like this. So, in the last three years, the dividend income is 170 million won, right? Then, the realized profit from selling stocks is 130 million won. You mentioned the stock sales, right? Yes, from stock sales, it's 130 million won. Then, we need to do some rebalancing again, right? Right. And the increase in stock prices has led to an evaluation profit of 670 million won, totaling almost 580 million won, 579 million won. That's impressive! And if you look here, this is the evaluation amount of my account from yesterday. It went up a bit yesterday, and today it has dropped a little more. So, it reached 1.7 billion won yesterday. Now, looking at the account evaluation amount and the investment principal, at the beginning, it fluctuated around 1 billion won, so it’s about 1.13 billion won now. What I’m saying is that in the last three years...

It has increased a lot. Anyway, if you look at the three-year return, it seems to be about 51%. Oh, that sounds impressive. I think you are amazing. Ah, that's not true. The dividend income is also quite substantial now, and many people might be curious about this. I think I can explain it step by step. So, in 1999, I read a book about dividend investing. I retired at 50. You joined a public company in 1999 and seemed to have studied hard for a long time, attending lectures by stock investment experts. However, I understand that you experienced some failures in investing and concluded that there are no stock market experts, which you mentioned in your book. You didn't write it so dramatically, but I think that was your feeling at the time, right? You mentioned that you went through several failures, and I want to emphasize that it was quite significant.

I have never had a huge success, nor have I experienced a major failure. The truth is, I haven't made significant profits, right? I haven't had an enormous failure either, in fact, during my 24 years of investing. But anyway, everyone goes through trial and error. So, in the beginning, I also engaged in short-term trading and invested in thematic stocks based on what people around me said was good. I also followed the news where experts mentioned that certain stocks had a promising outlook. So, I mixed and matched different stocks and traded them. Through this process, there were times when I made profits and times when I incurred losses. However, as time passed, I realized that most of the gains came from index investing. This is because, in a bull market, profits are made regardless of the investor's skill.

So, in the end, it doesn't matter if you invest in a stock index. I feel like I wasted my time and money on taxes for no reason. Personally, I consider that my biggest failure. I'm not saying that I completely disregard stock experts; I’m not an expert myself. Predicting the future is particularly difficult in investing, and I feel that it’s becoming increasingly limited. What I’m trying to say is that you shouldn’t blindly trust the views of experts. For example, experts often say that Nvidia and Tesla are great, but predicting future stock prices is a different issue. A good stock doesn’t necessarily mean a good price. I believe that the important thing in investing is the price.

So, that's what I meant. Ah, I see. It's somewhat of a convoluted question, but while you were talking, I was thinking about the past. There was a time, probably around the mid-2000s, when there were predictions of inflation, and people said that consumer goods like LG Household & Health Care would do well. Was that something that was discussed back then? It's a bit of a convoluted question. Personally, I didn't have a bad experience with LG Household & Health Care. It wasn't bad, but I didn't buy any shares at that time. Looking back, I realize I was quite unaware of the situation. When there were reports that cosmetics were selling well in China, I thought the prices seemed too high, so I actually didn't make any purchases. I see. It seems like there's a similar trend this time as well. During such times, people say that consumer goods perform well, or when events like the Ukraine war happen, there’s something about raw materials...

As it goes up, it seems like there are periodic increases, right? Experts say that raw materials will also rise, and when Chinese cosmetics come out, people wonder if they should invest in cosmetics. So, as I mentioned earlier, I thought we should go with the index, which led me to consider dividend investing. There might be opportunities to discuss this further later, but I felt that we should align with the overall stock market. 

So, if you invest 1.6 billion won in stocks now, I see that the valuation has risen to 1.7 billion won. As of yesterday, I heard you are receiving a monthly dividend of 10 million won, which amounts to about 120 million won annually. And when you turn 50, along with your husband...

You resigned and became part of the FIRE community. I resigned first, and my husband worked for another year. So, I'm curious about how you managed to grow your investments to this extent. I'm interested in your investment journey so far. 

I didn't start with dividend stock investments. As I mentioned, I initially did a lot of trading and often invested heavily in two or three stocks, focusing my investments there. The returns on those investments weren't bad; I also invested in KODEX 200. However, as I continued to invest, I ended up taking out a secured loan. At that time, the KOSPI had dropped to 1,700, which presented an opportunity.

I went to the bank, so I took out a mortgage on my house and invested in KODEX 200. Then, I sold my house and lived in an officetel for a while, during which I invested heavily in Hyundai Motor. Yes, I did put all my money into stocks after selling my house. That's true, but that period was quite short. Individual stocks like Hyundai can be tricky, but I did see some profit before exiting. However, investing in indices like KODEX 200 is good, but the dividends are too low. The dividend yield is quite low, and while I was still paying off the mortgage, the financial burden and the psychological stress made it quite tough at that time. So, I thought that if I were to hold onto investments for the long term, it would be better to invest in high-dividend stocks. This way, I could endure the situation while receiving dividends.

So, at that time, I started looking for undervalued high-dividend stocks. I realized that I needed to diversify my investments across many stocks to enjoy the benefits of investing. I began investing, and it has been about seven years since my current portfolio was formed, although it is not yet fully complete. The reason is that when we sold our apartment, we sold all the stocks we had and bought the apartment without any loans. People might think it's foolish to buy an apartment without a loan, but I really dislike taking out loans. So, I bought it and still own one apartment. If an opportunity arises again, like during the COVID period, I am seriously considering selling the apartment or taking out a mortgage to reinvest in dividend stocks. I see. So, since around 2017, what has your experience been with dividend stocks?

I think I completed my investment around that time. I bought a house in 2015 or 2016, and I believe I had about 30 million won left at that time. So, from then on, I started again, and that amount has grown to what it is now. So, with the initial capital of 30 million won, I combined my monthly salary and other investment income to keep increasing it, right? I reinvested the dividends and didn't spend a single penny. If I received a performance bonus, I wouldn't think, Wow, I did really well this time; let's go on a trip. Instead, I didn't touch a single won until retirement. I invested everything. As a result, I think the compound interest effect has contributed to the increase in the total amount. So, if we consider 2015 or 2016, it has been almost nine years of my salary and other income.

If it's not performance pay, then any dividend income is all my investment. So, in a way, it's not that I made a profit of 1.6 billion won from an initial investment of 1 billion won; rather, I started with 30 million won and have now reached 100 million won. I joined the company in 1999, and I wrote in my book that my first salary was 540,000 won, and that money has grown to this point. In the meantime, I changed houses twice. I think real estate investment has some value, right? No, I haven't been very good at real estate investment. But you bought a house in 2015, so you must have caught the low point well, right? Yes, I judged that it was cheap at that time and entered the market. When real estate prices fell, especially for young professionals, it was a good time to retire when stock prices plummeted. Oh, I see.

It seems that you are an expert in valuation. I heard that there are two major investments with the largest amounts. What are those investments? Currently, my investment in financial stocks is quite high, as you can see on my YouTube channel. Among them, Korea Investment & Securities and Hana Financial Group have the highest shares, amounting to about 900 million to 1 billion won combined. So, almost half, around 60 to 70%, is invested in those two. I am trying to diversify my investments as much as possible. If you look at the screen, I have brought the largest investments. I have divided my accounts into two, and I have a significant amount in Hana Financial Group and Korea Investment & Securities. Hana Financial Group is at 821 million won.

I have about 5,000, and the corporate bank is around 32 or 33. So, I've been continuously buying and accumulating; it wasn't all purchased at once. Now, combining the two, it amounts to about 460 million, which totals around 980 million. In a way, the author's book discusses investment indices in the market, which is correct. However, more than half of my portfolio is concentrated in just two stocks. Isn't that mismatched? Currently, I have about 30 stocks in my portfolio. Even though the dividend rates are a bit low, I am still in the process of accumulating. It's become quite concentrated because when I first entered the market, financial stocks had very high dividends. The prices were low, and the dividends were high, so I ended up accumulating them initially, which has led to some concentration. Therefore, I now have 30 stocks. Among those 30 stocks...

Right now, you are rebalancing your portfolio, but there must be a reason why you invested almost a billion won here. I'm curious about the motivation behind accumulating these two stocks. Earlier, when I was looking for dividend stocks, I was searching for high dividend stocks. It was strange to me why people weren't buying these stocks. The prices were low, the performance was good every year, and the dividends were continuously growing. I couldn't understand why they weren't being purchased; it didn't make sense. So, when I started buying them, I ended up accumulating quite a lot. You mentioned that from around 2017, it was also very cheap back then, right? It was extremely cheap, with dividend yields around 8% to 10%. Now, there is a lot of interest because of the value increase.

The prices have increased quite a bit, but I still don't think they are excessively high. However, if the prices rise significantly and the dividend rates drop, then I will have to reconsider. So, looking at the current situation, the financial holding companies and the Industrial Bank of Korea have high dividend rates compared to their prices, which is good. This has increased the attractiveness. But earlier, when you mentioned that even if the dividend rates drop, you would diversify your investments into stable stocks, does that mean you would adjust the amounts based on the declining returns? It's not that; it's more about needing to diversify because it's too concentrated in one area. That's the point. I see. So, usually, many people watch videos and read books about this, but when they interview and sell their stocks temporarily to invest, it often leads to...

There are many cases where people lose their assets and end up with a bad ending. Usually, the results of those who simply invest in real estate are much worse. What do you think sets that author apart from those people, leading to such a significant difference? There are many people in the YouTube world who sell real estate to invest, right? They often ask why one would just sit on a house. As I mentioned earlier, if the opportunity arises, I might consider doing the same. Anyway, even if one sells real estate to invest, I'm not saying it's a bad thing; it's just my opinion. If you go all-in on high-leverage investments like options or on volatile, non-dividend-paying assets, it can be risky. When things go up, it's great, but when they go down, it can really lead to a situation where you might lose everything, almost like gambling.

I think it's all the same. So, if you invest in stable assets and invest like I do, it's actually not easy to lose everything. Someone once said that it's not easy for this account to fail. So, it's hard to lose your assets. Ultimately, I believe it depends on where you invest. Where you choose to invest matters. For example, if real estate collateral loans are at 4%, and you invest in dividend stocks at 7%, the dividends will steadily increase, and the difference between the loan interest and the dividends will grow over time. Therefore, the probability of losing money in the long run is quite low. Also, luck is important, right? Yes, luck is important. So, could you please introduce the book Dividend Investing: I Retired at 50 to the viewers? Sure, the book Dividend Investing: I Retired at 50 is...

A book was recently published. I was really lucky to be given this opportunity by the publisher, Changer Books, to write it. This book is about the investment philosophy and characteristics needed for personal investment, what dividend investing is, how to choose dividend stocks, and the pros and cons of dividend investing. As the title suggests, I retired at 50 through dividend investing and was able to live off the dividends, which is why I wrote this book. If you look at the cover, you'll see an illustration of money growing on a tree. I chose this to make dividend stock investing easier to understand. I believe that the world of investing is not black and white, but gray, which is why I used a gray background. The basic color is gray, and while the designer put in a lot of effort, the reason for this choice is that black and white...

It's not logical, right? Stocks, right? What you're investing in now, in a way, is like the case of Hana Financial Group and the Industrial Bank of Korea. At that time, the stock prices were low, and the dividends were incredibly good, but no one was buying or even looking at them. They were considered black stocks. However, when everyone finally gathered to invest, it turned out to be really good. That's right, I understand. Then, let's continue and discuss more specific details.

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