[Music] [Music] Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, June 24th, 2024. Kyle Anzelone joins us now. Kyle, it's a pleasure, my friend. Thank you very much for joining us. What conceivable military purpose could there possibly be to the use of a drone filled with cluster bombs to attack Beachgoers in Sebastopol, Crimea, Russia? Yeah, Judge, it's a real tragedy what happened in Crimea yesterday when Ukraine launched the Slava of attack them missiles from the United States. According to Russia, these were the cluster variant of the munitions, and while they were able to down four, a fourth one exploded over a beach. Now, apparently, this beach was near some kind of military installation and possibly could have been on the way there. However, it was flying over a civilian area, and it did drop its bomblets, causing a lot of havoc on the ground. Two children killed, 27 children in total hospitalized, over a 100 people in total.

hospitalized four dead, and Russia is very, very upset. We had the Russian for Ministry, uh, summoned the American ambassador, informed the American ambassador that this makes the Americans, uh, a party to the conflict. They, the Russians, say that they used American satellite technology. American how planning this attack. It was with an American missile, essentially judge all the Ukrainians did is pit the Target and hit the big red button. And the Russians say they're going to retaliate against the US in some form for this, uh. Isn't, aren't the cluster bombs illegal, or are they illegal for everybody but the US? Well, there is an international treaty outlawing cluster Munitions, and the US, Ukraine, and Russia are all not a party to that treaty. However, there is a US law that bans Munitions with submunitions, which are, you know, forms of cluster bombs, whether they're artillery shells or like these attack of missiles that have a dud rate. I believe above 2% is the threshold in the law that those

would be banned, and The New York Times did an article. I believe it was in the spring of 2023, really detailing how the cluster munitions the US is sending to Ukraine has dud rates of between 14 and 25%, but the US is just ignoring that and claiming it's under 2%, so we could send these weapons to Ukraine. What's a dud rate? So, a dud rate is a cluster munition explodes and drops dozens, sometimes hundreds of submunitions on the ground. These are much smaller, maybe the size of a hand grenade. Now, most but not all of these explode, and so particularly as a legacy of the Vietnam War and what was done in Cambodia, there's these bomblets, and at the time, it was sometimes I think 50% for some of these munitions, the bomb didn't explode, and so the ground in these countries is littered with these submunitions, and so if farmers are plowing their fields and hit them with their plows, they'll go off, they kill.

Farmers' children see these shiny metal balls on the ground, pick them up, throw them around, and then a child ends up getting killed. Tens of thousands have been killed and maimed by these since the end of the Vietnam War, and that's why they're outlawed. And yet the US is allowing Ukraine to use them all over what is supposed to be one day Ukrainian territory again. But again and again is now going to be littered with these submunitions. Do you think we're sending these cluster bombs over there because we've run out of the 155-millimeter artillery shells that they so desperately want because they use more than we can manufacture? Yeah, Judge, that's absolutely the case. American lawmakers explicitly said that. In fact, some lawmaker said, Well, we're going to have to destroy these because we can't use them because of the laws on submunitions. And so why don't we send those to Ukraine so at least we don't have to pay to get them destroyed? And yeah, the Biden

Administration was very explicit when they ran out of 155-millimeter shells. They had decided to send these cluster variants. And with the attacks, it's the same situation. Initially, Lloyd Austin said we couldn't send the attack thems to Ukraine because we only had a limited number of the variant with the conventional warhead, the solitary munition. But we had a bunch of these ones that had cluster, and that's what we ended up sending. Here's a full screen of Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. He's not happy. I'm going to read this for the benefit of the folks that are experiencing judging Freedom Audio Only. The US is responsible for this massacre, and they will get an answer. All flight missions for American attacks missiles are programmed by American specialist Specialists based on their own US satellite intelligence data. Therefore, the responsibility for the deliberate missile strike against the civilian population of Sopel lies primarily with Washington, which helped this, which supplied this weapon to Ukraine, as well as with the keev regime from whose territory this strike was

launched such actions will not go unanswered. That's uh Foreign Minister Lavrov yesterday. Does the West take him seriously? Oh, well, unfortunately not. Judge at the beginning of this war. If you'll remember, President Joe Biden said we're not going to send Ukraine F-16s Abram tains allow attacks on Ukrainian soil, all because that would provoke World War III and lead to a direct US-Russian conflict, which we all know could go nuclear. Uh, a year and a half ago, Joe Biden was telling donors, not the rest of the American people, but donors, that we were closer to a nuclear conflict anytime since the Cuban Missile Crisis. And so, yes, you know, this should be a major concern. But now you have the White House and uh Brussels Yan Stenberg, the Secretary-General of NATO, all saying that they're no longer concerned that Russia is going to escalate two direct attacks. And Russia is saying they are going to issue some kind of response. I'm not sure what that response will be, but I do expect uh Russia to do something in

the coming days. Russia can um attack American troops that are assembling and dispatching these cluster bombs. I'm sure they know that exactly where they are, whether they're in Poland, Romania, or out of uniform and in Ukraine. Absolutely, that's one option. I really hope Putin doesn't go that route. The Russians did point to a global ha drone that was operating near Crimea when this attack occurred as a part of their evidence that the Americans were involved and helped to coordinate this attack, and so I wouldn't be surprise to see the Russians either shoot down or in some way down an American drone. I believe the Iranians uh down to virgin of the Russia hawk or the Skyhawk Global Hawk, whatever that drone is, under the Trump Administration, and then the Russians down a drone over the BL sea. I think that was an mq9 Reaper drone by dumping diesel fuel on it, so they have a multitude of ways to take down these drones. I'm sure even electronic interference at this point could probably do it, but I think Russia

might mess with some of the American drones in the region. Response is, isn't it kind of obvious that this war is about to escalate and the West, including uh United States, is going to get involved. It, it certainly seems that way, judge. We're moving in that direction step by step. First, I think it'll be the French. It, it seems that Paris is really working with Kiev on trying to put together this Coalition of NATO forces to train Ukrainian troops inside of Ukraine. Th, this seems like an absolutely ludicrous thing to do. Why not just train them in Romania or Poland or Germany and ship them to Ukraine? It only takes a couple hours, but that seems to be the plan the Dr. We're headed. And once these uh French troops start getting killed by Russian missiles, then what's the, what are the Americans going to do? Are they just going to stand by? I, I don't think that happens. I think we really ramp up and continue to uh in the months to come. Are we shooting at Russian troops in Syria? Um, I, I mean the US has killed in

one incident. I think this was maybe in 2017. A few hundred Russian mercenaries in Syria. And so that certainly has been going on for some time. Uh, We've conducted drone strikes in Syria, mainly against Shia militia groups that are tied either to Assad, Iran, or Hezbollah. And I believe we conducted one of those strikes this past week. Or maybe two of those strikes. The Russians said on Pro-Assad forces in Syria. But I'm not aware of any recent attacks on Russian forces inside of Syria from the US or our allies. Our proxy force, the Kurds inside Syria. Uh, Antiwar.com. Um, published an interest interesting piece this morning by Doug Bandow that Biden can't Define. Uh, Victory in Ukraine. You know, for a while he was saying, As long as it takes, As long as it takes, As long as it takes. To do what? Um, How? Um, Ill-prepared is the administration to say what their goal is in Ukraine. Well, yeah, Judge, They can't admit the truth because they told the Ukrainians that they get to lead the

negotiations, and that we will support them to do whatever they want to do. And Zalinski has gone completely mad. Even his own advisers are saying that he's delusional and Messianic, and that he believes that Ukraine could reconquer up to its 1991 borders. And that includes Crimea, the areas in the north, the East, and the South. And it seems utterly unachievable at this point. Ukraine is struggling to mount a defense against the Russian forces. So the idea that they're going to go on this major offensive and not just retake the dbass regions but Crimea is completely absurd. And saying that the war is going to go on short of that just simply does not make sense. And because the Biden Administration is afraid to walk back from its position that we're going to allow the Ukrainians to do whatever they want, we're going to give them the arms to make that possible, then yeah, you know, there's just no realistic goal for how this war in

Ukraine could end from the American and Western perspective, and there has to be some agreement from the Western side, or the war cannot end. I'm sure that if you ask Senator Graham or Victoria Nuland or Hillary Clinton in a private moment, they might tell you that their goal is to drive Vladimir Putin from office by using Ukraine as a battering ram, but I don't think anybody can realistically articulate or expect that to be the case today. You would think that Nuland and Graham know better, but these people have schemes, and they think they're smarter than everyone else. So remember when Victoria Nuland was leaving, she says, We're going to have some nasty surprises for Russia on the battlefield. Maybe she really thinks there's something in place that is ultimately going to change the dynamics here. I mean, it seems completely absurd at this point, Judge, and every single one of your guests has been telling the truth about this for years now, but it really seems like the

people in power, first of all, just aren't very smart. And secondly, are filled with hubris and just believe they could do whatever they want to the rest of the world, and eventually it will bend to their ways and ideas. Well, that's the American exceptionalism launched after World War II and fermented by George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, and those folks, and quite frankly embraced by every president since Cheney, maybe every president since Eisenhower. If anything's a failure, it's that the president authorized the Ukrainians to use American offensive weaponry to strike anywhere, underscore anywhere, in Russia. So, according to the Washington Post, and this is according to the Washington Post, so it could be wrong, the Washington has allowed KV to do is still limited to strikes within 100 miles of the border of Sumy in har Ukraine. So, that is pretty deep de in Russian territory, but that's what they've limited them to at this point, although we continue to have

US officials say well we're going to allow them to do what made sense, and I think what made sense is continuously going to expand. And also, there's all Crimea that the US has signed off on. Ukraine hitting okay let's uh switch gears to Israel and Gaza. Did the IDF kill another 100 Palestinians over the weekend? Absolutely judged there were a series of massacres across the Gaza Strip. I think mostly from Central Gaza on down to the South, including in the safe zones and supposed displaced people's camps, these 10 cities that the Palestinians have set up that Israel continues to rain bombs down on. Just some of the images coming out of this absolutely horrific. I saw one adult carrying two child casualties, one in each arm, just looked like lifeless bodies, blood pouring off of their faces. I mean what Israel is doing in Gaza is a horror. I just read a report from Save the Children, which is an international organization that now estimates that se uh 21,000 Gazan children, and this is in

addition to the 14,000 that are confirmed dead, but 21,000 guys and children are missing. Now, they estimate that 177,000 of those are just somewhere separated from their parents or family. Uh, closest relative doesn't know where they are, but there's an additional 4,000 that they say are either dead and buried under the rubble or are buried in Mass Graves. And now you have these poor Palestinian parents who go to the sites of these Mass Graves or where they're digging bodies out of the rubble, and they're hoping, I guess probably not hoping, but they're, you know, looking at these bodies and wondering if they're the partial decomposed corpse of their child and if they're going to be able to identify it. I mean, the suffering going on in Gaza is just uncomparable. When will Netanyahu and Company be held accountable for this? When will the international criminal Court decide whether or not to accept those indictments and issue those arrest warrants? Yeah, I'm still waiting on that.

judge, it seems that the gears of Justice move very slow at the IC. This has been an ongoing investigation for years and years and years. Uh, there's been ample evidence for quite some time that Israel is an apartheid state, and it shouldn't have taken this ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza to get somebody to start taking action and trying to hold Israeli officials accountable. But now that that process is in motion, it's interesting that we have not only Netanyahu coming to the US later this month, but right now the defense minister yav Gant, who is another one of the people named in Karen K's indictment. He's looking for an arrest warrant for this def uh Galant, and he's traveling to the US to meet with secretary defense Lloyd Austin right now to plan out what Israel is doing next in the Middle East. And that may not just be operations in Gaza, but also Southern Lebanon. Has Israel uh granted more rights to settlers to kill Palestinians who get in their way? Certainly, judge. And there's two really

good articles on this. I recommend people check out one. It is published at antiwar.com by our friend Connor Freeman, and you could find it there. The other one is an editorial by Herretts. What they lay out is basically what Betel Smich, the Israeli Finance Minister, said in a speech, which is that covertly Netanyahu has transferred a lot of power away from the Israeli Defense Forces, the Israeli military, and to civilian administration of settlers in the West Bank, and given them a lot of authorization, essentially a blank check, to start to annex the West Bank. So yeah, this is leading to a lot more deaths of Palestinians as the Israelis try to drive them off their land, set up new settlements, and finally take, you know, the West Bank away from the Palestinians, using the settlers as sort of a loose militia funded by ultimately the US, but under what purports to be Israeli legal approval. Absolutely, and throughout this war, Itar Bavier, the national security minister of Israel, has been handing out

rifles to Israeli settlers, and so making sure that they're very well-armed. A lot of these were American weapons, American-made rifles. I mean, Ben Gavier is not only the most right-wing fanatical member of Prime Minister Netanyahu's Coalition in the Knesset, he's also the head of their equivalent of the FBI. I mean, this would be like uh Chris Ray, the head of the American uh FBI, uh joining the mob on January 6. I mean, this is just almost inconceivable what this guy gets away with because Netanyahu knows he just slaps the wrist of Benir Benir and Company, leave the Coalition, Netanyahu doesn't have a majority, he's out of a job, and he can be prosecuted. Well, one thing Smol says, and I think he's right, and there Netanyahu wants this himself, and while it certainly is true that he is constrained by these right-wing fanatics, and maybe they've been far more bold than and transparent about what they want to

do particularly to Gaza than Netanyahu would I think his policies generally align with both wow um is Biden in danger of being either prosecuted for genocide or losing soldiers who will refuse American soldiers who will refuse to obey his orders because they constitute the perpetration of genocide well judge I can only imagine the pre-trial hearings if Biden's even competent to stand trial and could understand what's going on in the courtroom but you you know I absolutely agree that he should be held accountable for all these war crimes and what's being done in Gaza unfortunately it's it's just never going to happen uh by the time we would have that much change in the world Biden will uh lawnsense be be gone how about the troops can American troops I mean there are troops there I don't know if they're on this crazy makeshift raft that seems to be collapsing Ing and and floating out to see or if they're on any aircraft carry but we know there are troops there how

about if troops refuse to lift a finger to harm the Palestinians because of their moral belief that this perpetrates genocide what happens to those troops well I assume the Pentagon is going to try to punish them now maybe for political reasons they try to downplay it and allow them to take a conscientious objector status or give them some kind of uh other than honorable discharge and a pretty interesting article by William a story that we will be running this week at antiwar.com and I think it's on the page today actually it's explaining the reason that more and more soldiers are going to look at the conscientious objector status because they don't want to be a part of this remember the young Airman Aaron Bushnell set himself Ablaze uh and ultimately committed suicide in the name of you know opposing this war that the Pentagon is fighting and that he was a part of because he's a part of that machine and so I do think we're going to see more descent coming uh I if

people just stop doing their job. I do it, expect the Pentagon will try to punish them, but ultimately judge. I think the Biden Administration wants to downplay descent as much as possible within their Administration and look as cohesive as possible. Will Israel invade Lebanon? I mean, that's a big question. I'm really worried that the answer is yes. At this point, we have again Yov Galant and Benjamin Netanyahu both saying recently that they're looking at winding down military operations in Gaza. Not really sure what that means. I expect them to continue to have military presence in Gaza, frequent if not daily bombings of Gaza, but maybe less intensity, less artillery, less AT-ains, and things like that. They're going to relocate those from Gaza to the northern border, and they say at that point in time, Hezbollah either needs to stop and move north of the Tani river, which is several miles of Lebanon that they want Hezbollah to withdraw from, and I really doubt Hezbollah is going to agree to that.

does look like there's going to be some kind of conflict, and while Washington keeps asking the Israelis not to do it and trying to negotiate deals in the Middle East to prevent it, ultimately they're saying they will give Israel what support they can to fight this war. Wow, what a mess this will be. Kyle, it's always a pleasure, my dear friend. You're like an encyclopedia. No matter what, uh, I ask you about, you have a great, well-grounded answer, and I know the audience deeply appreciate. Thanks very much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Judge. Of course, coming up at 4:30 this afternoon, a very nice interview with a nice young man who was so knowledgeable. Coming up at 4:30, the King of the Hill on these, uh, interviewees, Scott Ritter, Judge Napolitano, for judging freedom. [Music] [Music]

Kyle Anzalone : Anti-War Wrap

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