Tatiana is one of the most diverse dining rooms in New York City, and you'll see somebody in a durag sitting next to somebody in a tuxedo going to the opera, and they're both eating oxtails. And you know that cultural equilibrium is what makes me really, really proud of what we do at Tatiana. In 2008, an 18-year-old college student from the Bronx, New York, had an idea. The Nigerian American son of a chef, Kwame Nwa watched his mom struggle to grow her own catering business, only to fall into the easy money allure of the streets. Inspired by the election of Barack Obama, Anat followed in his mother's footsteps, pursuing a culinary vision based on his own life story. After cooking at some of the most prestigious establishments in the world, Anat founded a series of his own restaurants, culminating in the New York Times best restaurant in New York for two years in a row, Tatiana at Lincoln Center. And it all started with one idea.

[Music] Being a chef is a discipline, particularly at the level that you are operating, um, that requires a number of different qualities and attributes. What would you say are the most important of those qualities for someone to have? I would say, as unfortunate as it is, sacrifice is a big one. You know, sacrificing to the craft. You have to put in a lot of hours, um, a lot of time in and out of the kitchens. I tell my cooks that all the time. The most important work you do is outside of the kitchen, so when you come in, you're set up for success. So, um, you're going to have to sacrifice a lot of hanging out with people or, you know, you're going to miss out on big events, uh, for this craft if you really, really want to pursue it. And then, attention to detail. All the small things matter, you know, 'cause they add up to the bigger things. If you can't fold your towel right on your station, how can I trust you with searing a piece of

protein. You know, um, so I would say those, those are like two big things for me. How did your parents' uh professional lives inform your ambition? I would say my mom definitely, first and foremost, she was a chef. So I grew up in the kitchen. She operated a catering company out of this small one-bedroom apartment in the Bronx, and we all had to help out to keep the lights on. Um, my sister, six years older than me, so she could go to the events with my mom, but I was left at home with all of the different ingredients, and that's how, like, it really sparked my interest in food and creativity and just how someone can provide for themselves, you know, and be their own boss. You know, I didn't really understand all the financials at that age, but I knew that she was her own boss, and that was really, really appealing to me, even at a young age. What about your father? So my father uh is a contractor and architect. Okay, so I got a lot of

attention to detail from him. You know, whether it's being on the job sites with him or seeing, you know, the plans out in his office and how he even like notated them, um, everything was like very, very organized and rigid. But I think that directly translated to my craft and just the way that I carry myself as well. You grew up in the Bronx. Shout out to the BX, baby. Each borough is very distinct, and within each borough, each neighborhood is also very distinct. And I'm curious, how did your experience in the Bronx, in the neighborhood that you grew up in, um, sort of in a unique experience for you? You know, I grew up moving around a lot in the Bronx. You know, I probably moved like eight times during my childhood, so I had to like learn and adapt to these different neighborhoods, um, every couple of years. And the dope thing about the Bronx is that, and New York City in general, but the Bronx is so multicultural. So on one block, you can have 10 different restaurants, you know, from 10 different nationalities. So that

that it taught me a lot in regards to my profession, but also in dealing with different people and new people. My ideas come from so many different places. It can be inspired by travel, it could be a dream, it could be eating a dish at a restaurant, it could be watching a movie. Ideas are all around us, so I think it's best to just be a sponge and accept all. Your mother sent you to Nigeria. As I understand it, that wasn't really what you thought was happening, but you ended there for 2 years. Well, I was definitely veering off on the wrong path, which is pretty easy to do in the Bronx, you know, growing up. What does that mean? Just being disobedient, staying out really, really late, you know, coming in when I wanted to, hanging out with the wrong crowd, you know, things like that. And my mom, you know, she didn't want to see that go any further, so she said I was

going on a 2-week vacation to Nigeria. I was ecstatic. Um, sounds like a fun time. It sounded like a dope time. Didn't think I deserved it, but hey. And then when I got there, I quickly realized it was not a vacation at all. And um, you know, I spoke to her and she said, You're going to stay here until you learn respect and to learn to appreciate what you have here in America. So I went from playing PlayStation to doing my homework with a kerosene lamp. You know, like we didn't have electricity, we didn't have running water. Um, we had to raise our own livestock. However, when I got back, I think I was worse, really, than when I left because I was fearless. I had lived through something that most Americans don't live through. So the fears that I had before, they were gone. When I came back to America, it wasn't until I reached my adulthood that I really started to think about the lessons that I learned there and how fortunate and um, privileged we

all are out here and to not take that for granted. While you were in Nigeria, you lived with your grandfather, who is an academic. MH, how did his profession and sort of worldview inform how you think about things? His ideology and just his way of life affected me. You know, I couldn't really dissect the dichotomy of him being an academic at that age, but just his demeanor, the way he carried himself, the topics he talked about, the lessons that he tried to instill in us at a young age are things that I've taken with me. You know, he was an avid proponent for civil rights for black people in America, and that has always stuck with me, you know? And I think that's why I do what I do. Everything that I do, I try to uplift my people's culture with it as well, with whatever platform that I have, whether it's a book, whether it's a movie, whether it's a restaurant. I want to continue to push that narrative that

you know we belong and we should be respected. I don't think there are bad ideas. As someone who has done a lot of stupid shit in his life, they're all lessons. So, I think, you know, you have an idea. It's just great to see it through 'cause you never know what's going to come from it. Even if it's quote-unquote a bad idea, something dope can come out of that. [Music] Too, you mentioned coming back and being even more of a Hellraiser than you were after leaving in your teen years. You get into selling drugs, you get into gang activity, you get into even possessing firearms. Mhmm. What was the point of inflection that was the catalyst for change? It was very serendipitous, I guess. You know, like I had some friends over, we were partying, and on the screen was Barack Obama, you know, becoming the president of the United States. And I voted for him, but I was like, I don't know if a black man has

ever going to be the president of the United States of America, and seeing him walk across that stage, I was just like, holy [__] I can do whatever I put my mind to. Like, seeing that really changed the way that I even viewed myself, and you know, that day I flushed everything that I had down the toilet and bought a one-way plane ticket to Louisiana and was like, I'm going to figure my life out. I didn't know I wanted to be a chef. I didn't know what I really wanted to do, but I didn't see a fairy tale ending for anybody in my neighborhood that was dealing drugs or lived that lifestyle. You end up moving to Louisiana and begin your path towards the profession of culinary arts. Yes, exactly. What was that progression like, and then, too, what was specifically the experience that you had on that ship that brought it all into focus for me? I feel like this life is a progression, you know, like it started

when I was in my mom's kitchen, like, it never really hit me that I wanted to, like, be a chef until later on, you know. So, I started out as a dishwasher when I went to Louisiana. Then, I was a server in a restaurant. Then, I was a cook, and then I was a cater waiter, and then I was a catering chef. And, you know, then I got the role on the boat during the Deepwater Horizon oil spill to cook for the oil spill workers. And that experience was, I don't know, it was wild, honestly. It was the first time I was on my own as a young chef, cook, cooking whatever recipes I could think of, you know, for a group of people. And we had to cook breakfast, lunch, and dinner for this crew. At what point did you start to feel like, I'm kind of nice at this? Um, when people would line up when they knew that I was cooking. Yeah, that was, I was like, All right, this may be something that I should think about. Um, and people would tell me

like you should, you should do this, you know, like you're consistently cooking good meals for us that are better than what they've had. Um, I think that was, that's telling. I think that's why a lot of chefs get into cooking in general, you know. You can really see when someone is enjoying a dish kind of instantly, um, and that's kind of like a high, like someone enjoying your creation, um, and you get that instant feedback from somebody, and at the same time, you're also nourishing people. It's like the only art form that you actually ingest that really sustains life, um, so that was a really dope experience with an initial taste of the power of his cooking to move people. Anat set out to make his inherited passion a career. His pursuit would lead him from the subways of New York to the hallowed kitchens of the world's most famous restaurants, but a spectacular failure at his first solo venture would put his ultimate aspirations in doubt. So then you come back to New York.

City, and you set your mind to starting your own catering company, correct? And you managed to fund this in a very, uh, unusual way. Uh, what was the sort of light bulb moment that led you to deciding to sell candy on the Subways? Well, I wanted to start a catering company, and I needed capital. I would, you know, thrift clothes. I bought, I think, a thousand glow sticks and tried to sell glow sticks in Times Square. Don't do that. Also, nobody wants to buy glow sticks. Um, I thought I could get them off. And then I was on the train coming home from work, and there was a kid there, and he was selling candy. So my mind was already like, Okay, let me figure out how to, like, move and shake. Um, I was rapping at the time also, so I would do, like, events at the Nuyorican Poets Cafe and serve food in between, you know, and that's how I'd pay my rent. So I saw the kid selling candy on the subway, and I kind of laughed and

then I was like, holy sh, this kid just made like $5 in two minutes. I was like, what is that an hour of that look like? I was like, what does an 8-hour shift of that look like? And I realized that this kid was making way more money than I was, tax-free. So, I went into work the next day. I thanked them so much for the opportunity. I was working at Craft for Tom Kkco at the time, and I quit, and I hit the subway. Crazy, yeah. Let's get back to this rap thing for a second. I need to hear more about this. So, when you say you were a rapper, like, I was an aspiring rapper. Yeah, yeah. Are there songs that exist? Yes, there are. Okay, and what made you abandon this? Well, I was rapping, pursuing an acting career, and cooking all at the same time. Wow. Um, and then the cooking just took off, so I didn't have time really to keep up with the other two, so I just poured everything into the

cooking. Yeah, there's enough industries to go around. So, you had to earn $20,000. It's not a small amount of candy to sell on the subway. Um, how long did that take you, and how quickly were you able to transition from that into, you know, launching your catering business? Um, I think it was like three, four months. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, at the same time, I was building everything. So, I would get some money, and I would build a website. I would get some money, and I would formulate an LLC. And I would get some money and get a commercial cooking space. And there was a time where I was still catering a little bit and doing that at the same time until I could really dive into just doing the catering full-time. Did you have any mentorship, or like, where were you finding out about, like, starting an LLC and, you know, all these kinds of things? I didn't. I just had to figure it out on my own, honestly. Really? Yeah, crazy. You talk about a pretty funny

interaction that you had with Steve Stout where you run up on him, give him a card, tell him you'd like to cater one of his parties. Yeah, and then insist that he has not called you a month later, find him at another book signing, and confront him about his lack of hitting you up. Yeah, um, I'm curious now that you are yourself quite successful, rich, and famous. What is your perspective on that approach? Oh, it's a terrible approach. I've talked to him about it, like now that we have a relationship, but I'm not mad at it. I still think it shows tenacity. I think I would have reacted the same way as him, but I think you got to want it, you know? I wanted it by any means, and I wasn't going to let anybody tell me no. But if you were going to tell me no, it had to be a strong no, which he did. And I think that's what you need, you know, for to achieve, you know, true success in whatever industry.

You're in definitely have some self-inhibiting doubts, um, but I push through. I think that's what real courage is. It's being afraid but still pushing through and getting the job done. The catering business gets off the ground, and you start scaling and having to hire employees and put together a team and all of that. How did you think about finding people? What were the qualities and skills that you were looking for? And also, how has your thinking about that evolved? I don't want to say it hasn't changed, but for the catering company, it was all my friends from high school or my new friends in culinary school, um, we banded together and just got the job done. You know, I don't think any of us had any idea what we were doing. I know I didn't, um, and I had to lead this group of misfits, but you know, we were able to achieve some really dope things. And now I think it's kind of similar, you know, like I like to surround myself with people that I trust.

um I don't care so much about a resume as much as like your ability to like get a task done. So, it hasn't changed that much. What is the key to sort of maintaining that sense of brand across a constantly churning staff and then keeping those key employees? You have to try to keep treat people well. That's at the core of everything, is to try to just treat people well and have empathy. In terms of like remaining consistent, that's the biggest battle in the restaurant industry. I mean, the person that's been able to do that the best is Ronald McDonald, you know. Um, but every restaurant is trying to figure out how to be consistent every day because we're working with human beings that have feelings, you know. They have a life outside of this, and you bring that into work. You bring that into your work, so it's a challenge. I think logistically, we try to have checks and balances, you know. We try to have recipes measured down to the gram so there isn't much of a variable.

that can happen um and if it is, it's so minute that the guest doesn't really notice it. But it's a challenge. You're doing the catering business. You realize that you need to go to cooking school. What was the sort of impetus that made you think? There were moments within the catering world, like me, like messing up at events and, you know, not really delivering what I should have been. And I had to have a ra conversation with myself in the mirror, and I knew that I needed to get some better education, whether that was going to work in a restaurant, taking a step back so I could take a giant leap forward. In this age of everything being available on YouTube, I'm curious, do you think still that culinary school is a must for someone aspiring to step into the spaces that you're in? I don't think it ever has been a must. I don't think anything is a must. Everybody learns differently, but you cannot just learn from YouTube. I will say that. You need to actually cook for people. You

need to you know learn the proper ways to do something repetitively, like constantly, until you there's no way for you to like get it wrong because you've done it so many times, right? What were the most crucial things that you took away from your experience as CIA? Oh man, I loved it. I loved it so much. It was like being at Hogwarts or something, you know what I mean? Like everybody was there for the same reason. I learned a lot of professionalism there. I learned there were, I mean, there were definitely technical aspects of cooking, you know, different techniques that I've taken from there, but just the community, you know? Like that community was just so incredible. Like it was, at that time, it was the future of the culinary industry. Someone who was interested in becoming a chef, the first step I would advise them to take is to not do it. It's really, really difficult. I would say, Are you sure you want to do this? Um, but other than that, if they said

I really want to do this. I would tell them they need to find the best restaurant in their town, wherever it is, and work there at least for a year or two to see if they really want to do it, um, and to hone in on their craft, uh, the foundation and the fundamentals. Then you end up getting the externship, as is that the right phrase, okay, at per se, mhm. In the past, it was a top two or three restaurant in the world. What was sort of, uh, the most consequential part of that experience? That experience, I mean, I learned so, so many technical skills, um, on how to cook, but also how to carry myself in the kitchen and professionalism, sense of urgency, attention to detail, which I talked about before. That folding the towel thing even comes from per se. So, I learned, I learned, learned so much about fine dining, but also like how to take those things and apply it to, you know, whatever it is that I want to do, whether it's fine dining or not, just

really caring about every single thing that you're doing because it does affect the guest experience when you end up at 11 Madison Park. Is that as a job or is that a continued a job? Yeah, I was still at the CIA, and I would come down. I would take the train down and work there and then take the train back up so I can make it for class. What were the biggest differences? They're obviously two world-class kitchens but with two very different personalities running them. Yeah, I mean, they're two different restaurants. They just are. They're different because they're an expression of a human being, you know, so like it's going to be inherently different. You know, the finishes are going to be different. The key seasonings are going to be different. The culture is going to be different. That's what I mean, like the culture of how everyone relates to one another is very unique spot to spot. Yeah, it's extremely unique from place to place. You know, the most unique thing was I found a mentor.

at a medicine Park um Jamal James Kent. He was the chef de Cuisine there um and you know he kind of took me under his wing. So that was that was like the the the biggest difference for me is having someone that was like a really really great leader and didn't he didn't lead like other fine dining chefs that I have worked with. You know wasn't through fear it was through like understanding and it was through empathy and communication. So that was that was uh a really pivotal moment in my career. Generally you pivot when things aren't working out and I think for me I pivot when my happiness is not meeting like my expectations. But if I'm happy and I'm still like in something that's like unfavorable I'm going to push through. But if I'm unhappy and is not working out then it's time to go. From a Madison Park you end up helping a friend with a popup which then leads to you having a series of popups yourself. What was that experience like of taking the same experience and moving

it around uh and also for the first time crafting your own menu. How did you approach that sort of strategically? So for the popup experience, it was a - it wasn't just like a popup; it was like a 10 City Tour. They took like 10 chefs, put them in different City, kind of like a shotgun start at a golf tournament, okay? And at the end of the dinner, the guests would get a feedback card, and they would rate you from 1 to 10 on taste, on temperature, what would they actually pay for this if they had to pay for it again, etc., etc. And they took those cumulative scores and crowned a winner of this tour, and the winner got their own restaurant. So for me, it was more than just a popup; it was like, okay, this is my way out once again. This is like, this is my selling candy on the subway, MH um. So I wanted to connect with the diners, so I told my personal story, but I also weaved in whatever location I was in, oh like cuisine as well. So if I was

In Austin, I did an homage to Salt Lick Barbecue. You know, if I was in Chicago, I did something unique to that region. Um, so that's how I changed it up, but it was incredibly difficult, you know, being in a new city every four days, dealing with a new team, with a new menu, a new menu, new team, new location, new challenges. It was quite the experience. This was clearly somewhat of a competition. Do you consider yourself a competitive person? Uh, when I need to be, yeah, for sure. Which of course leads to you then being in another competitive environment and Top Chef MH. Um, how did that opportunity fall into your lap? Well, actually, it came from doing the pop-ups. So, I got a lot of national press, um, and I guess that's what the Top Chef casting people look for, and they reached out to me. I did a Zoom or at that time Skype, I guess, a Skype call, and a couple months later, I was in California off the success of the pop-up.

tour. You also end up soliciting the interest of some partners, which ends up yielding you your first restaurant, Shabu M. Tell me a little bit about what you learned in that process, both about sourcing your business partners, but also about doing the build and putting together your first real concept. It was incredible. It was incredible. I still think it's the best restaurant I've opened up to this day. We put so much work into it, physical and mental work into that restaurant. That was something that we gave our all. I gave my all for sure at that time. It was a crash course in opening a restaurant, from conception to build-out to execution. We know how the story ends, but I don't really have any regrets about it, you know? Like, I can't dwell on that, but also I can't tell what people are going to do when situations get tough. I can only react my own way, you know, and get back up when things don't work out. And it taught me a lot about myself in that

regard now with Shabu. Things start very auspiciously and fairly quickly start to go off the rails, and there's problems with the construction. The menu becomes prohibitively expensive, which then sparks food industry controversy. And within some number of months after opening, everything is kaput. I'm curious, what was that roller coaster like emotionally for you? And at that moment when you realize that it is over, how did you sort of figure out a path forward for yourself? Yeah, it was really tough. It was really tough. It was tough being in it. Also, like the press, you know, I was like a poster child for what not to do in the culinary industry. They were doing like classes on me in school as well, the CIA. It was everywhere I turned, I was reminded of it. But I had to remind myself that like people that actually care about you aren't going to kick you while you're down. So like those aren't the people that you should be listening to. You should be listening to the other people.

that are trying to lift you up or the people that tell you these things before goes left. Um, and I had to dig deep and push through and pick myself up. Luckily, I had people that I surrounded myself with that believed in me more than I believed in myself at times. And, you know, I was able to open a restaurant a couple of months later, immediately after the demise of his first restaurant, and was retreated from the public eye and reestablished his love for cooking behind the scenes. When he returned to the business in a leading role, his vision for a cuisine incorporating all of his influences would reach new heights and bring him back to his hometown with renewed [Music] acclaim. How discreet did the public persona of Kwame become from the person you are sort of underneath all of that? And again, how did that feel when the public uh you is first exalted and celebrated and then, you know, derided in that way? You know, I think at that point it was there was a beautiful uh present, a beautiful gift.

that was given to me, which was the removal of the fear of failure or trying to assimilate or, you know, pretend or put on a front. At that point, I was like, F*** it. Like, Y'all have done your worst, so I'm just going to be myself, and you can kiss my ass if you don't like it or not. So, I opened up an Ethiopian fast casual restaurant called Gorcha. I had a friend pretty much act like the chef. I didn't want to be in the public eye; I just wanted to cook, just to get back to what I loved doing. And it became like the number five, the fifth-best restaurant in Washington, DC, at the time, but nobody knew that I was actually the chef in the kitchen. And then, a couple months later, I got Ki and Kin, you know, and ended up working with Ki and Kin, you know, being a very, very highly acclaimed restaurant, just me being unapologetically myself. But I think up until then, I didn't really know I was

still young. I was like 23, so I was like in the public eye there maybe four years before that. I was selling candy on the subway, so I go from selling candy on the subway to like three, four years later on National Television. I don't know, and I'm also still figuring myself out as a young adult. So, I think it was very difficult, but I'm very grateful for that experience because it removed that fear of failure from me. Failure is kind of an opinion, you know. If Beyonce sold 50,000 records, that'd be a failure to her, but if somebody else did that was just up and coming, it'd be the best day of their life, right? So, I think it's really an opinion of like how you view yourself and also how others view you, but for me, my quote-unquote failures were just big lessons to me, and I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. What is your process when you are coming up with a restaurant? It's a menu.

It's a vibe. It's a space. You know, where do you start and how do you build it out in your head? It starts with the location for me. Yeah, the location kind of speaks to me, 'cause then I can dive in like what was there on the land before, you know, and like really get inspiration from like just that physical structure. Um, and then I honestly, there's no like, there's no blueprint to it just yet, you know. I'm still a young black chef, you know, I guess, but it, there's no blueprint yet. So it can start off as something and then morph into something along the way. Um, but it for me, it starts with the location and then it may be the concept and then the name and then I can toy around with different things. But there's a lot of, a lot of factors that go into it, whether it's the vibe, the music, the food, the decor, um, the location, the identity of the restaurant and of itself. How important is the role of storytelling and of theater in

creating a restaurant. I think storytelling for me is key. You know, like I have a mantra: if a dish tells a story, then it has a soul. You're not just cooking for perfect seasoning; you're cooking to share something with someone, make someone feel something, and that has now bled into everything that I do. You know, the name, the logo, how it's designed, what is the font, you know, the menus, how they're designed; like everything should tell a story. You know, theater. I think in the aspect of theater, restaurants are theater. Not many people are going to restaurants because they're starving. It's like, it's not a soup kitchen. You know, they're going to feel something. They're going to meet. They're going to, you know, have fun with friends. They're going there because they're mourning. They're going there because they graduated. And our job is to make people feel comfortable, have great service, and a great meal. And that's part of our stage. You decided to leave Kith and

kin to try something that was a little bit more, you know, your own. Was that decision difficult given the success that you had enjoyed after, you know, having a little stumbling taana? Yeah, so from K and Ken, I moved to LA, okay, and I got into acting and creating content for brands, um, went back on Top Chef as a judge, wrote another book. I wanted to get away from the restaurant industry because of Co, you know, I didn't get into it to do takeout food. I got into it to create experiences for people, so I was like, when it comes back around, you know, maybe I'll jump back in. So when, you know, things died down and restaurants started to open up and the world started to open back up, that's when L consenter reached out. So I just felt it was time, and there was no better place than to come home to New York. Yeah, I was curious about that. I mean, it's obviously a very hallowed space. Um, what is the process by which one gets that kind of real estate footprint in

Manhattan. I think you get called up. You don't call them; they call you. So, you basically, you were on the phone with a Rockefeller, and they were just like, Yeah, I was on the phone with Lincoln. Um, no, they called the—the—they were renovating it for the first time since it opened because of Co. They were able to, like, redo it, redo the theater, the lobby, everything. And then they were able to put a restaurant in there. So, I got a phone call from someone who represented them. Um, they wanted to bring a chef in to create a concept and put a restaurant there. They're talking with a bunch of different chefs. I gave them my concept, and I think I got a call maybe—maybe the same day or a couple days later—that they wanted to go with mine. And I understand the concept was predicated quite specifically on the location and what had been there prior to it becoming Lincoln Center. Absolutely, yeah. I knew I wanted to do, like, Afro-Caribbean. That's I kind

of kind of my style. I think I'm still figuring it out, but my style is my culture. So, I'm Nigerian, I'm Jamaican, I'm Creole, um, Trinidadian. So, like, I use those flavors within my cooking. So, I told them that, but, and then I also looked at the land. I was like, okay, what was here before the meeting? I'm like, what was here before Lincoln Center? And I saw that it was Old San Juan Hill, which was an Afro-Caribbean Hispanic community that was pushed out um, so Lincoln Center could be built. I think it was by Robert Moses for like the deurbanization of the city at the time. And I was like, oh, wouldn't it be dope to put that food back where it probably was? And then, you know, I started toying with like names, and then I thought about, oh, well, my upbringing is also Afro-Caribbean Hispanic. I grew up in the Bronx. Oh, what if I named it after something that would remind me of that Tiana, you know, growing up in the Bronx.

so that's what I mean about like everything should tell a story, you know, so it has a soul. So, people ask me about the name, it's like, boom, okay, the cuisine, got you, uh, the location, got you. You know, like you have an explanation for everything, um, and it helps your staff get behind it too, 'cause then it means something, you know. It doesn't just seem for profit, like it, we're, we're trying to say something here. Everything really tells a story, you know, we talked about that, yeah, back at the studio, and if it tells a story, it has a soul. So, like, I thought it was important even with design to tell a story. Um, I worked with Melis, which is an amazing, brilliant architectural firm, um, by Pretty, and we designed it together. So, like, for example, the sculptured clouds, you know, my head's always in the clouds, I'm a dreamer, so I wanted to make sure that that was, uh, kind of like the focal point of the restaurant. But then there's small details like these gold chains, this

actually reminiscent of chain link fences I used to hop as a kid. Now we have them in gold dripped and gold um. The air descent columns are from the oil slick when you put the fire hydrant on and then you turn it off and there's like this oil sheen on top of the asphalt um. So that's there and then there's other textures from the city of New York or colors. The oxidization of copper on the Statue of Liberty. You'll see those green hues throughout. So it's very very New York without it being just in your face. We wanted it to be integrated into the design in a subtle way that still speaks [Music] volumes. I noticed the uh kitchen here sort of semi-open to the room. What's the significance of that? I wanted people to be able to see into the action um and also for the cooks to not feel like they're in a dungeon you know. Okay every kitchen that I've been in there were no windows or anything you know it's very

bright in that kitchen, so you're able to see the plaza, and you're able to see and feel the energy of the dining room, and you can hear the music too. So, you'll see the cooks dancing, you'll see the cooks a part of that vibe, yeah. And I see during the summer you have an outdoor space now, yeah, we have the patio. The patio, I think, is cool 'cause it still has the ambiance of the restaurant, like the music and the food, but it's outside. So, and you're in Lincoln Center, so it feels very, very much New York with one of the most stunning backdrops New York has to offer. When you close your eyes and you think about one of your customers at Tatiana exiting the building with a belly full of some of the most delicious food that they've ever had, what are the set of feelings that you are hoping that they are experiencing? That's an interesting question, a really good question. Um, I really, there's two answers, you know. I think for people that are represented by the culture and

the food. I'm so happy that they have a place that they can experience their culture while celebrating a special experience, you know, um, whether I'll beat a birthday or an anniversary, you know, or meeting someone for the first time, you know, there's anyone in this room could go to an Italian restaurant, you know, and propose, or a French restaurant, um, for a meeting, but there's not many places that we can go to to experience that while still experiencing our food. So, that's what makes me like really, really happy about Tatiana. And then on the other side, for someone who it's not their culture, they're in a place where they can receive it, you know, and they're all eating the same food at the same time. I think Tatiana is one of the most diverse dining rooms in New York City, and you'll see somebody in a doag sitting next to somebody in a tuxedo going to the Opera, and they're both eating oxtails, and sometimes they're sharing food, and you know, that cultural equilibrium is what makes me

really, really proud of what we do at Tatiana. Success looks different to many people. I mean, I think success is happiness. As long as you're happy doing what you're doing, you know, you can't really put monetary value on that. Um, I think that's really, really, really. The secret of life is just being happy. There's things that money really can't get you. In the famous words of Kanye, Having money isn't everything, but not having it is. I understand you have a new restaurant that is opening fairly soon in DC. Um, I'm curious, you know, what is the concept for this restaurant and where are you in the process of formulating, you know, all the various facets? Yeah, so this restaurant is really, really cool. Um, um, it's in the Salamander Hotel, but it's also telling a story once again. You know, I looked at the structure and where it is, and it's on LeFant Plaza. And then I did some. LeFant was hired by George Washington to create the pretty much the streets of Washington, DC, the grid, right.

yeah, the Grid in, you know, in the ban of like European cities, and they needed someone to do the borders, and they hired Benjamin Banck. He used the Stars to map out, you know, this perfect square or Diamond, however you look at it, um, for the borders of Washington DC. So, I was like, holy [ __ ], this guy must have been really good at his job to be a black man hired, you know, in the George Washington era to create the borders of Washington DC. Like, where did he learn this from? And if I did some more research and finds out he's a descendant of the Doon tribe in West Africa. So, you know, before colonization, weren't country lines, it was just very tribal, and there were tribes that were good at Battle and tribes that were good at Mining and tribes that were good at astrology and Science, and that was the Dogon tribe, and they used to map Things using the Stars. So, he learned that, you know, it was in his blood, um, and that's how he was able

to do that. So, it's very interesting that without West African science, you know, there wouldn't be the capital as we know it today without that influence. So, I want to tell the story of DC through a West African lens, so all the different cultures that make DC beautiful and what it is, you know, told through an Afro-Caribbean lens. Some unconventional ways that I connect through my community is through philanthropy. Every business that I open has a philanthropic arm that we don't really even talk about. You know, Tatiana has a Tatiana Gives Back program that helps to the beautification of the projects behind Lincoln Center, as well as like feeding the community. My water that's coming out each Canon goes back to building a well in West Africa. My family reunion event in Virginia, we have a scholarship fund that sends kids on a full ride to The Culinary Institute of America. At whatever, 25, 26 years old, you wrote a memoir, which is fairly young for

something like that. What do you think the significance of being able to do that has been on everything that has followed? Well, I think if you don't write your own story, somebody's going to write it for you, you know, so it's better to be in control of that. And also, when you're present in that thought of crafting a story, then you start to have something to say 'cause you've thought about it. You think about how you're being represented or even how you're being presented in different rooms. So, I think it's really important to craft your own story so that you have a message and you do something while you're here. You know, we only get one of these, and whether you write a memoir at 25 or you write it at 55 or 95, I think everybody has something to say. You talked a lot about empathy, and I've seen interviews with you talking about sort of mental health and trying to find balance, the discipline of being a chef.

however is an incredibly brutal one. How do you manage to sort of keep your own sanity and also be mindful of um you know your own sort of state of being? I read a really good quote once. I was on a mushroom trip while walking through Vancouver, and they have a lot of graffiti in the back alleys, and it said, Everything's important, but nothing matters. So, it's like I try not to take myself so seriously. Yes, I'm going to put in the work. I'm going to put in the work. I'm going to build this restaurant. I'm going to make sure every minute detail is is stinct and and everything's on point. But at the end of the day, we're just cooking dinner. And I think having that woaw makes it all man manable. [Music] [Music] oh

How Kwame Onwuachi Went From Selling Candy to Becoming a Top New York Chef

Bloomberg Originals offers bold takes for curious minds on today’s biggest topics. Hosted by experts covering stories you haven’t seen and viewpoints you haven’t heard, you’ll discover cinematic, data-led shows that investigate the intersection of business and culture. Exploring every angle of climate change, technology, finance, sports and beyond, Bloomberg Originals is business as you’ve never seen it.
