I'm a good guy. I'm maybe, I'm just not the nicest person. Like, they're two different things. So, yeah, being a good person comes naturally to me. But being nice? No. In 2015, a 34-year-old veteran rapper from Jersey City, New Jersey, had an idea. 12 years before, Joe Budden had found instant success in music, only to fall into record label purgatory and see his career stall out. Having dabbled in radio early on, Budden launched a podcast during the medium's infancy, back in 2015. Combining insider analysis and cutting wit with a gift for extemporaneous performance, Budden would build a business in broadcasting that would absolutely eclipse his career as a recording artist and revolutionize hip-hop media. And it all started with one idea. Joe, welcome to Idea Generation. Thank you for having me. You know, it is a great honor.

especially given our professional history together. And, you know, this is an amazing way to kick off the new season, so. That's why I'm here. That's why I'm here. How did your parents' professional life inform your career ambitions? I don't think they did. I don't think they did knowingly, right? But I mean, each one of their decisions would eventually lead me to my professional pick. But knowingly? No, my dad was in and out of jail, and my mom, to my knowledge, worked corporate at Verizon and Citibank. The decision that probably most impacted me was my mom's decision to send me to high school in North Carolina. So that's what, 14 years old? Somewhere around there, getting me out of Jersey City and going, That's where I lead in the choir. Oh, really? Yeah, come on, don't sleep. Don't sleep, buddy. Yeah, lead in the choir.

Just cyphers with these guys from all over America that were rapping. It was just like steel sharpening steel at that point. By the time I went back home, I was a whole new rapper, whole new person. Who was my biggest early supporter? A guy named Dutch. Dutch is no longer here, rest in peace to Dutch. But Dutch is the guy that, in Jersey City, who really pushed me to get this rapper thing to where it needed to be. He was a rapper himself. He introduced me to the Big Ls and the Lord Finesses and the Brad and just, he made sure OC when that album dropped. Like, he just made sure certain things were consumed by me and we wrote rhymes together. Very, very, very early on, we wasn't thinking about record deals or money advances. It was just the love of writing. So rest in peace to Dutch. And where did you get the confidence

to start pursuing music as a profession? What do you mean the confidence? I was the man in my hood. Hold up now, let me be clear. From 17 to 21, my hood knew my name. So confidence wasn't a thing for me. I used to drive around looking for other people to do this back-and-forth rap thing with because I just had conquered too much in my hood. Like, yeah, confidence wasn't an issue. I thought I was better than most of the people in New York way before a record deal. Really? Way before a record deal. Yes, yes, call it arrogance, call it cocky, but we was on the mixtape scene. So by the time I heard what I was doing, had not heard the field and then how that compared to when it was eventually on the mixtape somewhere else. And how did you go from cyphering in Jersey City to landing on the radar of Desert Storm

and Skane and those guys? That was my god brother, Bryce. So my god brother, Bryce, took whatever I was doing in Jersey City. He got that to, I wanna say, Cutmaster C. Yep. Who got that to Webb. Who got that to Skane. Who got that to Drew and Kevin Lowes and Lior. The rest was history. And for each rung, did you have to sort of perform and? No, the Bobby Shmurda on the desk? Yes. No, no, no. Oh God, no. My worst nightmare. No, no, no, no, no. There was none of that. Skane was coming off of Ludacris' project. Okay. With Don't Throw Them Bowls and all that So I mean, he put his name on it. Okay. He put his name on it. Clue, Clue'd put his name on it. Webb, I had some pretty good guys put their name on it.

And again, I was on fire in the streets. I was on fire in the streets. So performing on the desk at the label. Yeah. What is the most important idea I've ever had? Freedom, freedom. That's the most important idea I've ever had. How did you catch fire on the streets? Like what was the actual process of getting onto those first mixtapes and then getting to the place where you were putting out full projects yourself? Webb and Nitty Distribution. Okay. And their connections to every DJ that mattered at the time. So hard work, right? You're putting a new verse on every DJ's tape every time they drop. And you do that for two years. That's what happened. Those were our charts. Like we didn't know nothing about charts and BDS and any of that, radio spins. Those mixtapes and your placement, those were our charts. Like the artists do today with the festival lineups.

Like maybe, oh, what line am I on? Move me up. The mixtapes was that for us. And when you started to work on the first record, what was your creative goal for that? And what were your commercial ambitions? I did not have any commercial ambitions, and I wanted to put 15 songs of mental health jams out for the world to just therapize to. That was my plan. I didn't know nothing about having to create an album and sell an album and what the label had to do and radio songs and the first week. And I didn't know anything about any of that, but I worked a lot. So you get your whole life to make your debut album. I made a lot of songs, and thank God, 'cause at some point I got that pile up, and I lost my voice, and then I couldn't record anyway. So I had a whole bunch of songs, and I think the word was, yeah, but I mean,

you need a single. You need a single. Actually, Focus popped off the mixtape. Def Jam missed it. So yeah, you still need a single. We don't care that we missed it. If you can't do something like that again, then you're out of here. And then you got the Just Blaze records. Yes, Skane was very honest with me. He said, if we don't get a record, they're probably gonna drop you. So pick a producer. And that's what we're doing. And then I picked Just Blaze, and we went in, and magic. My man Just, big jersey. How quickly did that record take off? That record took off the second that I gave it to DJ Enough, unmixed, unmastered, to play at five o'clock. It was out of here. And shoutout to Enuff. I mean, he broke it. He was talking to the label while he was playing,

don't this up, Def Jam. And it was like a DJ's dream, right? With all that, The DJ's really had a blast with that one. They broke that record. So it happened fast. We leaked that record in February. We were shooting a video in Miami in the wintertime. Album came out in June. So from February to June, that's fast. Yeah. For me back then, 22, 23 years old, having had never done this before. That was like a rocket. What do I believe is my biggest advantage as a creative? My ability to take a risk, I think gives me an advantage. My foresight, my willingness, and my willpower to do, to try, to execute, to fail in the short term. Yeah, I think that's probably what separates me the most. There'll always be somebody more talented. There'll always be somebody more talented. There'll always be somebody who raps better.

or interviews better or that person will always exist, but it's those other intangibles, those other sliders. You can put me in a room, I'm gonna get it done. No matter what. When you got to the end of making the album, did you feel like this is scratching the itch that I had hoped when I was 14, when I started writing rhymes? No, no, early on it felt like work for me, to be honest. Early on, and it was a lot of pressure on the release at the time. I'm not quite sure what they were expecting, but they were expecting big return. So it was that, and I was on the road, just promo, marketing, running around. There was no time to stop and really assess what was going on. And again, I'm a baby at this point. So yeah, no, I had no idea what was going on. And around the same time that you're doing this,

you end up guest hosting the morning show on Hot 97. Boy, I had fun doing that. So you're in media for the first time. Why did it stop? Back then the thinking was you're too accessible as a musician to be on air five days a week. So pick one. Was this an edict coming from marketing people or was this something that you felt self-imposed from the sort of artistic community or? I mean, Kevin Lowes told me, Hey, get the off the radio. There was no dancing around, pussyfooting around. That's my man. But yeah, he said, Why does somebody wanna go buy your album if they can turn the radio on and hear you? Pick one. This will always be here, but this is a young man's game. What are you gonna do? So I stopped that. But I had so much fun that I kinda always had an idea that I would double back.

Despite the success of his first single, Budden soon found his career in music in limbo. But after making pioneering moves in digital distribution, he would find a second wave of acclaim with a new supergroup and begin to explore new opportunities in media. The first record, you had a smash in Pump It Up and a modest hit in the second single, Don't Fire. Then it was just this five-year window of kind of quiet. Now, obviously, there were mixtapes and freestyles and whatnot, but-- Well, that was the changing of the regime. And what were the conversations you were having with L.A. and with Jay and- Oh, no. Wasn't a lot. Wasn't a lot. L.A. came in, he had his guys, and I can't speak for what Hov was doing, but I wasn't prepared to come out. There was no more tutelage in the building.

There was no more guidance for me. Yeah, that relationship, it wasn't a go. You know, you obviously have very strong feelings about the nature of the financial relationship in the music industry between the artist and the label. Oh, it sucks. Yes. At the time, how cognizant of that imbalance were you? I was not, not then. That didn't come to a way later. How much later? Maybe eight years later did I really understand what was going on. What was that process of discovery like? Oh, all the mistakes. Realizing the mistakes in real time. I got signed to Spit Records, which is some new that Def Jam was trying to do for their newer crop. I mean, now I kinda understand what was going on back then, talk about a crock of , but starting from day one. So you go from Spit to Def Jam, everybody leaves Def Jam, Leor, Cabin Dumb, then LA comes, then Hov comes.

Now I'm trying to get off, but I'm hot outside. So they're not letting you off. Then you realize your lawyer was the label's lawyer, all of that. Then some business accountants rob you along the way. You're still young, you're still young at this point. So then you finally get out of that deal and say, you know what? I'm gonna be the first to go digital. I'm doing digital-only releases. And then you take the bumps and bruises that come with that. And I think from there, I fought with them. They sold that contract to E1. So now you're on E1 and a contract that you don't wanna be in. So you got about 10 years now of just amazed, just like an escape room with no real exit. Still in a bad pub deal. Well, not a bad pub deal, but an outdated pub deal from 2001 that doesn't count independents,

that doesn't count EPs, that doesn't count bodies of work with all original music. So now it takes 17 years to get out of that. Oh my Lord. Talk about stress. Very predatory business. Before you even get to all the financial imbalances, it's just a predatory business. There's no way to expect someone that is 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 to have a grasp of even a portion of this. There's no way, it's impossible. Do you think in the current climate that it makes sense for an artist to sign to a major label? I mean, I don't. I didn't think that back then, but I mean, now more than ever, I don't really see it. I don't see the benefit. Why not? 'Cause you used to have to rely on the label for almost everything, and today you don't. Back then, you couldn't distribute,

you couldn't market, you couldn't pay for things, you couldn't hit radio, you couldn't get listeners without them. Today, if you have your own team to kind of take care of things, there's nothing that you pretty much cannot do. So what are you signing for? It's like, what do you want out of it? How did the going all digital impact your business? Well, at that point, I was fresh off of Def Jam. I got all my rights back from them. So there is really no business now. And again, just got by, just got me by. That's what it did. Going all digital, 'cause it wasn't set up right, but great idea, just too early. So this is like pre-streaming. Yeah, yeah. Peak iTunes store. Really early, but I mean, I think my first all digital release, I did 14,000 copies week one. Second week, I made a jump down to eight.

It was great in hindsight, but it wasn't received that way. It looked like, oh my God, Joe Budden's clinging on for dear life. But I was just trying to innovate. Now, there wasn't an album template that had to be followed. There wasn't a song structure that had to be followed. So like, if I just wanna come out and rap 90 bars with no hook, then over here, nobody gives a and there's nobody trying to arrange this differently. So it was just creative freedom. And then Slaughterhouse comes into existence. That's like '09. Yeah, '09, births Slaughterhouse, our debut on E1. From that, we go to Shady, debut over there, welcome to our house. And in that was Love & Hip Hop, 2012ish. So I'm going for it. I'm and I'm going for it. I got a group and we got Shady.

and I'm gonna do Love & Hip Hop. And then I'm gonna put a solo album out. I got my Wayne single. I'm ready for war. And that was a show. That, my first stint on Love & Hip Hop. How do you tell a good idea from a bad idea? You do 'em all. Reality TV is a double-edged sword. And for most rappers, it is kind of the beginning of the end. Yeah, I didn't know. What do you think was the key for you to be able to navigate that to, you know, sort of bolster your celebrity, but without taking you out of, you know, your sort of zone where you're able to thrive? Well, the most important thing for me on my first stint of Love & Hip Hop was that was the first time I was able to sit back and look at myself. That was the first time I was able to sit, cut on the TV, and just look

and see all of the goofy that I was doing, and that was on. And the way that I looked, the way I behaved, everything about it was a mess. It was time to make serious changes after that. What were those changes? Everything. Everything had to change after that. Business had to change. Personal had to change. Again, how I showed up for myself had to change at that point. We don't wanna do this now. We done put out a million albums. We done did a group. We done did TV. All of this can kiss ass. Like, let's really get it together and plan accordingly for the next few years. Coming off of that is when I started thinking about, okay, how do I want my 40s to look? I did this 'cause I wanted to do it and 'cause I loved it. All of this stuff that came before this, but yeah, that was toward the end of my service run.

I was done with the service at that point. Slaughterhouse, obviously. You guys had the two records, and then there was a third that was talked about and teased that never really came together. You're now several years removed from not only the incidents but even the sort of litigation of the incidents. How do you think about managing relationships with other creatives? I mean, you gotta play nice when you're in the sandbox with other kids. Does that come naturally to Joe Budden? I'm a good guy. I'm maybe, I'm just not the nicest person. Like, they're two different things. So yeah, being a good person comes naturally to me, but being nice, no. So if I have the choice, I would like to work with people that I care about and that care about me. Very important when you're putting together these ensembles. How do you know when to pivot? When you're bored, you pivot when you're bored.

When you pivot when you're not, you guessed it, free. In 2016, you decide abruptly to put down the mic and stop being a recording artist. It wasn't abrupt for me. Really? Yeah, I had thought about that since 2013. How did that idea gestate? It was one last tour that we went on. I forgot where we were, but we were in a van traveling somewhere and just like enough is enough. Enough is enough of this city, this city. Just this, just this. Let's just be daring enough to do something else and try something different where we don't, maybe don't have all the answers or the experience. That's really what it was. What about just the satisfaction that you get from writing and recording music? Obviously, your music is incredibly personal. That's too selfish. It's too selfish to only think about the satisfaction that I get from writing, recording, and releasing music.

when I have children. It's no longer about me. At the end of my run, I felt like I paid my service. I did all that I was willing to do for me. That whole 15-year run, that was for me. Now it's time to consider some other things and some other people. And the best way for me to do that was to not write. When you were penning that last verse, did you know explicitly this is it? I maybe envisioned a comeback sooner than it's been, but yeah, at the time I knew that that was my last verse and I was heading into retirement. I wanna say it was the final verse on Idols on Rage & The Machine. What was the path from making these independent records, the mood musics, to then starting, we'll name this podcast later? That podcast, we started that podcast in 2015. Didn't know what a podcast was,

didn't know what was expected, how we would make a business out of it. But again, we're early on something and I'm having a good time, so let's just keep it going. I always thought that after rap, I would be on radio somewhere, but those people never left those seats. So now the great broadcasters have to go find another way. So it's back to digital. I think I had did Combat Jack show in 2011 and I was amazed that they sat there and it was a three-hour broadcast and that people were glued and tuned into that. So that felt good. The podcast had been unmonetized or very modestly monetized at that point. How were you thinking about that pivot from a business standpoint? Well, I didn't think that podcasting would remain that way, right? Like I saw a change happening sometime soon. So again, staying afloat long enough to play another hand,

complex and everyday struggle enabled me to have the freedom over here to kind of just wait the field out. I just remember thinking like, this is something different from anything I've ever seen before. And yeah, then we turned it into Everyday Struggle. Lightning in a Bottle. That was one of the best shows, period. Like I'm saying in hip hop, but that was one of the best shows, period. I agree with you that it was the best hip hop show. I stand in that, I stand in that. I don't give a what show they bring up. That was the one, that was the one. Where you were at, where Aqua's at at the moment, and I mean, you look at the marketplace in the last six years, that was the blueprint for all of it. Mm-hmm, it was. And it was just, it was great. It was great. Dude, I have an ultimate creative goal.

I don't think I have that vivid of an imagination. I do still believe in the almighty higher power, right? Like some of the things happening are beyond some of my wildest dreams. So my goal is to play the hand long enough to see how it plays out. At the time you had the Joe Budden podcast with Rory and Mal, and you guys had sort of found, you know, your groove with the main show and shooting in Astoria at that point. How did you think about Everyday Struggle and approaching it to create a non-competitive, but sort of complimentary product? Well, back then, I mean, you were there for this. We weren't about to hire one of my friends, and that's who I was partnered with at the time. So great, we're off to a great start. We're gonna hire somebody. I was looking to hire somebody that I could yell at. That's what I was.

I was looking for a contrast in thought and opinion and delivery, and when we found it, that was it. That was it. So yeah, that was gonna be different. Again, hip hop doing the debate style show with shout out to all the producers and everybody that was involved in that year that I was there. Everybody hit it off the park. Everybody. Which sort of segues to the way that you have, you know, you've been on both sides of labor disputes with Complex as talent, and also with the Joe Budden podcast and the Joe Budden network. As a manager and a CEO, has being in both of those seats changed your perspective on what it is like to sit in either one of them? Oh yeah. Yeah, it takes a special person to deal with me on some mornings. Yeah. I would hate to have me as the dad. Woo wee. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely changed my perspective a bit.

I understand. I just understand more now. I understand both sides. Not just on the Complex example, but the Def Jam. Like in hindsight, I totally, I totally get it. I totally get it. Everything makes sense. Everything makes sense. I would have paid me. Just so we're clear. Well, now that I understand both sides, I would have paid me. But again, more learning, more experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything. My time there, even the beefs with whoever I was beefing with. Like, yeah, no. I learned a different way at Complex. Okay. Let's just approach this differently. Made for a much better business partner for everyone that came after you guys. With everyday struggle in the rear view mirror, Joe set about expanding his media empire. While professional and personal controversies have challenged these efforts along the way, Budden has remained undaunted and undistracted in his pursuit. His podcast remains as relevant today as it's ever been.

and his business continues to thrive as he works to plot the next chapter in his ascendance to the Hip Hop Media Hall of Fame. So, you leave Complex after about a nine-month run. Shortly thereafter, you did start your own network, and you launched several different shows, some with yourself and some with adjacent talent. And that was a mixed experience from what I've seen you say. Yeah, for sure. What did you learn in that process? That I will kill one of these creators, so let me not do this again. That's what I learned. Again, keep people close to me that just love me and know me, people that I care about, people that care about me, and run this very boutique business a certain way. But the same way that I'm a crazy creative, creatives are crazy. They're nuts. So, I know something is wrong when I'm sitting looking at a creator saying, Hey, this is crazy.

Like, I shouldn't be saying that. So yeah, today I avoid certain headaches. I choose peace. I choose peace today. After you left Complex, you went into a deal with Spotify. They had exclusive distribution of the pod. And for that right, they paid you, from what I understand, a fairly handsome licensing fee. You eventually walked away from that after the term of your first deal was up. What caused you to do that? Rights and control of them and just review the market and where it was going differently than Spotify at the time. That was really just it. And again, I'm not gonna be in a situation where somebody else is controlling the rights to my product. What did I learn from my biggest mistake? Well, most of the mistakes, you know, the common denominator is me. And the more attention I pay to myself is the more attention I pay to how I'm doing physically, spiritually, emotionally, mentally. And the better I show up for myself and things,

I normally get a better turnout. These mistakes led me into, you know, mindset, mood set, sage and So, I mean, through every step of the way, I probably just learned a lot more about me. Obviously, your relationship with Rory and Mal deteriorated sort of after you decided to move away from the podcast network ambitions. And this was something that played out literally on camera, the professional and the personal dissolution of these relationships. How was it navigating that as a person and also as an entertainer that is creating a performance? This is obviously very entertaining for the audience, but also I imagine stressful and taxing, yeah. Taxing, overwhelming, tiresome. Yeah, no, that was a mess. And then the product was suffering. So at the time for me, I was just overwhelmed. I needed sleep. I needed a clear, clear mind, which I probably was navigating all that without.

And you're just bringing it with no experience, and I'm a creator, but now I'm in the business, and now it's just a big cluster. So overwhelmed is the best word. At a certain point, it just became about trying to keep the friendship together versus the business. But then you see that either one of those are not gonna, it's not gonna fly. This continues to be something that pops up every three to six months. And there are- I like eight to 10, but maybe you're right. Subliminals, and I know you see it. Why do you think this continues to be such a sore spot for them and for you as well? I don't wanna say sore spot. It's the gift that keeps giving. That's for sure. If I had to guess, probably people feel like there's no closure. Maybe some people want closure. That's my answer. Is that possible? Closure? Yeah, close some. I never understood the people that need

to see somebody else for the closure. Like, we can just close it. I have too much fun with some of the stuff that comes with it and I'm not that mature yet. So maybe I'll just, sometimes if it's too peaceful, I'll just throw some out there. But other than that, yeah, man, it's done. We had a good time. We made some history together. Everybody landed where they were supposed to. Hopefully everybody is doing well and great. Maybe one day in 10, 20 years, we can look back and say, Hey. But now in the thick of it, I don't see it. How do you think about that component though? You know, you are doing this performance twice a week. You're filling six to eight hours typically of airtime. And since probably back then, really 2019, 2020, one of the sort of, you know,

recurrent plot lines are about the interpersonal relationships between yourself and the co-hosts, whether it was those guys or now the new crew. How do you compartmentalize that now so that you're able to mine this for entertainment and content? And, you know, you know that that's something that the fans are coming for, but without letting it spill out into a professional dissolution. I think today the line is a lot more defined between business and personal for me. And that might've been a big problem back then is that maybe that line wasn't so bold. So today I'm working with people that kind of get it and understand. And we come in and we're clocking in and we're getting to it. But when I clock out of here, I'm a man of very little words. I don't wanna talk very much. I wanna be earthy and watch the sunrise and be a dad. Like I'm on dad time. There's not even any time to think.

about any of the other bullshit. My personal is so different from just on air, performative antics. And hopefully, I've been doing this long enough that some of the fans are able to tell that. And if they don't, then enjoy the ride. We put the tag in the front for a reason. And that's that. What is the most misunderstood part about running a successful podcast? I think all of it is misunderstood if you're asking me. But the most misunderstood is that you just sit down and talk. That's probably the number one. People think that you just sit down and go to B&H or Sam Ash or somewhere. Yeah, they go get a mic, they sit down, and they just start shooting the It's like, hold up, who the are you? I mean, tell me a little bit about yourself while we're here. But yeah, everybody thinks it's just sitting down and talking, and it's much more than that.

How do you think about cultivating your own opinion? Because you're often in a situation where you are forced to react very, very quickly, whether it's to music, news, business, or celebrity gossip. How do you manage making sure that your thoughts and the opinions that you're expressing represent how you feel in 24 hours, in 48 hours? That can be tricky. It's also the great thing about doing this thing twice a week, right? Like if I come in here Friday and stand on something and I don't feel like that the following week, I'll say it, I'll tell you. Hey, I said this last week, that was a crock of bull or I totally up or got this wrong. But other than that, like I'm pretty unique in thought. So even as we have to react and respond fast to things, most times what I think about it is what I'm gonna think about it.

Do you feel comfortable backtracking or revising an opinion? Yeah, that shows growth. That shows that you're current and active and aware, and you're in real time with this thing. Shows that you're not complacent, just saying something when the job is done and moving on. Has your thinking about how you wield your opinion shifted over the last six, seven years? 'Cause I've noticed that in 2017, 2018, you would drive headfirst into every topic, every controversy. You will now sometimes sit some things out. Yeah, I don't just run headfirst into this. I think about things, and today I try to handle things with more care than I did back then. Part of growing up, I guess. I just enjoy talking, I enjoy conversations, bro. Then tell me what you want from hip hop. Nah, I mean, I'm just making music, bro. I'm just having fun.

You know what I'm saying? My fans love it. You're gonna have a problem with just having fun and- What do you want from hip hop? You're gonna have a big problem with just having fun. You don't sound like you're very aware of what's going on and you're one of the hottest on earth. But what do you want me to say? You want me to say- I want you to be aware of your business. I want you to know whether you're in a 360 or not. I want you to appreciate the culture that changed your life and took you from college dorm room eating oodles of noodles. I want you who's well-spoken and articulates himself well. My Chill. What role do you think confrontation plays in what you do? I mean, it has to play a role 'cause you wanna be responsible for the things you say. But I don't look at it, I don't view it as confrontation.

I view it as I wanna report on this matter as if the person I'm reporting on is listening. You just wanna try to be respectful no matter what your opinion is of it. We even had to find respectful ways to say this album is trash. So I'll spend a few days trying to figure out how to perfectly describe this bulk of trash 'cause we can't say that. And doing that is lazy, right? Like in whatever year that was, I've started feeling like just saying something is trash is lazy because at least tell your audience why you're saying this is trash. I am curious when you look at footage of yourself in 2017, you know, that everyday struggle run, you were incredibly confrontational. How do you feel like you have elevated or changed your approach? When I look at 2017, it's like, Ah, I see what you were trying to do but you were really rough around the edges.

Just real beginner. There was a lot to learn and a lot to go through, and I'm thrilled that I was able to learn and go through it with the likes of you guys and the good people at Revolve and just everybody that I've come in the path with because today it's mature. I mean, what, 2017? I'm late 30s, broke still, just mad at just looking at things through the wrong scope. So no, today, I don't wanna treat people like that. I did all of that already. I wanna make people as comfortable as I would like to be as an artist sitting down to do somebody's. That wasn't cool. I mean, it was cool back then and it helped back then, but today, you don't have to do that today. The most important way for me to connect with my community is to stay connected with my community, and that means we'll change over the years.

So whether that be audio apps, when I came in, it was AOL, it was Def Jam message boards, it was over the years, it's been Ustream, it's been BlogTV, it's been Periscope, it's been whatever there is, you use it and there's enough out there to use. So if people are not doing it today, then they just kinda don't wanna do it. Me, that's always been at the heart and soul of everything else I do. Your analysis of music is definitely one of the key draws to the pod. It feels like hip hop has changed more through the pandemic than it has for quite some time prior to that, probably 25 years, I mean, go back to the early 90s. From your vantage, what is that shift? I felt like music was being devalued a few years ago after the pandemic. Once you start seeing your favorite artists put out an album every five years

and once you start seeing your favorite artists go get a Popeye's deal before they put an album out, it's like, okay, the musicians are not, they're scurrying. And if they're scurrying, that means the execs and labels are scurrying, that means it's time to, yeah, music is cool as a focus point of this pod, but we might need to find other things to discuss because it's looked dim for a while. Also, the median age of the crew here is probably late 30s, early 40s. Well. Yeah. We don't give a about the drill. Well, that's what I'm, yeah. Well, Ice does. I was gonna say, well, when it comes to Playboi Carti or Yeet or, you know, any of the new artists that have broken. That's what I got you guys for, that's what I got y'all for.

When I need to learn about that, I go right to Complex. You are a man very familiar with controversy, and there have been efforts to cancel you, or however one wants to go about phrasing that. It feels like every year or two, there is some wave, and I will look at Twitter and see Joe Budden trending and click and read about something. I've been doing pretty good with that. It's been a lot less in recent years. I mean, do you feel like, well, one, has any of those efforts ever materially impacted your ability to monetize or to create? Yeah. Really? Yeah. When, which one? I ain't saying it, but you got right. Hell yeah. Yeah, no, they were dark days. There were dark days where, you know, the branding wasn't the greatest. There were days where, you know, we lost a lot of money. We went through it. So yeah, there's been very few of those moments.

in recent years, and you want it to stay that way. Gone are the, gone is rambunctious, rebellious, I don't give a full steam ahead, Joe. Like that ain't how we're dealing with things today, honestly. How do you think about the future of the pod and your business as you look forward? That's where I am now. It's trying to invent something that's not there yet. That's how I see it. When I see the future of podcasting, there's a crevice somewhere that's been untapped that leads to the whole gateway of, and it's my job to find it. I feel like I'm always tasked with finding out the breakthrough or the innovative steps to take this thing somewhere else. If you're not doing that, then you're just wasting time here, and you missed the big podcast boom because it's over. I'm gonna go find a new way that nobody's looking at yet.

How Joe Budden Became the Biggest Voice in Hip-Hop Media

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