I have to be honest with you. I think we've made multiple attempts to ask surrogates of both candidates for a clear definition or explanation of their policy towards crypto. Are you able to do that? Yes. Well, listen, I think, you know, Bill said something interesting in the last interview that people have been very frustrated with Biden. The Biden administration's about focus on tech and crypto is very much a part of that. It's one of the reasons why we partnered with Harris X to launch regulation by enforcement dot com. We need to stop the regulation by enforcement and get a new law into place. With Donald Trump, he has had a remarkable change of heart on crypto from where he was when he was president last time. He's had incredibly clear list of priorities he's very interested in, including people with understanding of crypto in his administration. We know that he's going to fire Gary Gensler on day one.

So we have to jump in there because what you just said is interesting. You are working with the Harris campaign, but you're complimentary of what President Trump is, how he's approaching this. We had Gary Gensler on the show last week, and Caroline asked him very simply about his retention of his job. What's your position on leadership at the SEC in that respect? Gary Gensler has got to go. There's no question about that. And I think the good news is with the change in administration, whether it be Trump who wins or Harris who wins, there is an opportunity to make that change. I think we know it's pretty clear where Trump stands. Harris I think we're hopeful. I mean, listen, she's had the, what, the shortest presidential campaign in history. And but she is talking with the tech community, as this was just saying. She is open-minded. She said some positive things about crypto.

So she's not as precise in her policies. But she I think we're optimistic that if she wins, that there will be an opportunity for change at the top as well. Can you articulate the precision of the policies coming from the Trump campaign? Because for me it just sounds like we want to make it more adopted here in the U.S. We want to be like the number one place in the planet to have crypto. But I didn't get much nuance on exactly how that. Do they do that from a guardrail perspective, from a Congress bringing in rules perspective? Yeah, well, President Trump gave a great speech at Nashville where he laid out a couple of items. But it goes back to the the biggest thing the crypto industry right now needs right now is to stop the regulation by enforcement. We have a Congress coming in that we think is very primed to pass an appropriate regulatory framework. They did a lot of work this Congress,

but we're going to need next Congress to get that work done. And as part of our campaign for regulation by enforcement, we. Harris X found that two-thirds of voters agree that Congress should act first before the FCC should take action. And so I think it shows that four candidates who are running for Congress, for the House and the Senate, that whether they be Republican or Democrat, that it is helpful to their campaigns to take a pro-crypto posture. And that's one of the reasons why we think that with a change of administration, that we're very hopeful that we can get new leadership at the regulatory agencies and some of the executive branch agencies that will help work with Congress to make that a reality. A number of the brands that we currency currently see in front of US companies have been making layoffs of late, and many have been trying to make clear that, yes, Bitcoin has been on a bit of a tab, but the ecosystem in general perhaps hasn't been thriving.

More broadly, how do you see that continue to evolve? Yeah, well, the industry has been struggling here in the United States. You know, I think there are companies and leaders that are fighting to try to keep it here and getting the right framework that allows us to keep it here. But it's very, very risky to create a new blockchain, to launch a token, to do that kind of activity in the US. And so what happens is these companies take their laptops, go overseas, and work out of there instead of working here in the US. And so this is one of the things that can't be measured. This is, you know, there are some factors like we have over 100 enforcement actions. There's been over $400 million in legal fees spent. But what can't be known is the number of jobs and the opportunity for the US. And very quickly, we have a few days until this happens. Yeah.

Calculated or game plan for the scenario you think? Most likely. You know, it's interesting. I'm watching all of the same signals that everybody else is. I think the early voting. I'd love to look at the prediction markets. I look at public market, I think about every half hour to see where the numbers are at. It does certainly seem to think that Trump is in the lead. But I've been around long enough to know it's very hard. You really have to get through the day. But I do think regardless of what happens, we've turned a corner. I think we're going to have an incredibly productive Congress and I think we're going to have a new administration that's going to be more open to working with the crypto industry.

Crypto's Impact on the 2024 US Election

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