The Moral Dilemma of Religion and Human Behavior

Religion can compel morally normal people to commit horrific acts, revealing a troubling moral dilemma.

### The Moral Dilemma: Why Good People Commit Bad Acts
* 🤔 "Why do good things happen to bad people?" is a question that stirs **deep reflection**, as many wonder about the **apparent injustices in life**.
* 📚 The speaker reflects on the notion that even those who seem to escape consequences, like Bernard Madoff, ultimately **miss out on the essence of human experience**.
* 💔 Cheating, whether in relationships or in business, leads to a **loss of genuine emotional investment**, suggesting that "**you pay for everything you take in life in one currency or another**."
* 📝 The professor shifts the focus to why good people sometimes perform wicked acts, highlighting the **struggle between intentions and actions**, famously echoed in St. Paul's words about **moral conflict**.
* 😔 The conversation turns to the darker implications of religious practices, with one speaker arguing that certain beliefs compel otherwise moral individuals to commit **heinous acts, such as genital mutilation**.
* ⚖ The debate intensifies over the **morality of religious rituals**, with opposing views on their **impact on children** and the justifications provided by their adherents.
* 🙅 A call for accountability emerges, as one participant criticizes the normalization of harmful practices, emphasizing that **"genital mutilation is no joke"** and should not be treated lightly.
* 🗣 As the discussion becomes heated, the need for **respectful dialogue and understanding of diverse experiences** in the context of morality and religion remains paramount.

Rabbi, I suppose you've heard this question before. I think it's for the panel: why do good things happen to bad people? What about bad people who get away with murder? I've lost track of how many people have urged me to write a book by

that title, and my response is, who would buy it? Who would you give it as a present to? Well, it's too late for Mr. Madoff now, but he, he would have liked it a year ago, I would say. Bottom line is, yeah, it's a very disturbing

phenomenon. Much, most of the time I think you don't really get away with anything in this world. You pay for everything you take in this world, in one currency or another. Uh, the Bernard Madoffs, even if he had not been caught, would have missed

out on much of what it means to be a human being. The guy who cheats on his wife and doesn't get caught, and thinks he's really clever, and he's pulled it off, we'll never know what it really feels like to invest all of your love in

a single relationship. You pay for everything you take in life in one currency or another, and sometimes when the bill comes due, you go back and wish you'd played it differently. Professor, do you have any thoughts on that? I, I once said that the, that Rabbi had

given me a wonderful definition of the word 'envy.' I envied his royalties, and uh, there was a sense in which he spoke, and does speak, to the fundamental question that we all ask. But I would write a slightly different book. My book would be, 'Why do good people do

wicked things and the church is full of good people who are tempted and actually sometimes succeed in doing wicked things now my tradition teaches that there's the doctrine of original sin it sort of explains everything you're all naturally wicked and you'll do wicked things

unless you're inhibited against them uh which provides a very rational theology but wouldn't preach very well these days especially I'm sure in Hartford Connecticut but the fact of the matter is the greater question for me is people who want to do the right thing

want to do want to be thought of as good and virtuous often end up doing terrible things and I think of St Paul's famous line the good that I would do that I do not and that which I would not do that I do that's the human and the moral uh

uh dilemma and it seems to be that's the task to which you know confession forgiveness amendment of Life all of that is directed towards so that would be my take but I don't think my book would do as well as Rabbi's book you

want to add anything yeah um there are things that a normal morally normal even if very morally average or mediocre person would not unprompted do for example hold down their daughter at the age of six tear off her underwear and cut her genitalia with a sharp stone

they wouldn't do that if they didn't think God was telling them to do it or the mullahs or the if it's a boy the rabbis were telling them to do um one of the reasons why I have the lewd subtitle

I do of my book, the origin is a poison, is that it makes ordinary moral people compelled them, forces them, in some cases orders them to do disgusting, wicked, unforgivable things. There's no expiration for the generations of misery and suffering that religion has

inflicted in this way and continues to inflict, and I still haven't heard enough apology for it. Gra, you Christopher, I I've got to call you down on referring to circumcision as genital mutilation. My son cried more at his first haircut than he did at his

circumcision. And statistically, you weren't doing it right then. Statistically, the the only long-term effect that it seems to have on people is it increases their chances of winning a Nobel Prize. I can't um I can't find the the um compulsory uh mutilation of the genitals

of children as subject for humor in that way or flippancy in that way. My mom says very plainly that it's designed to repress sexual pleasure, to deprive a male child as far as possible of the opportunity of that uh the full excision

um uh not just the snip or the the full mandatory covenant is fantastically painful, uh leads to trauma, um leads to the dulling of the sexual uh relationship and can be in itself life-threatening. At that moment, we have the records I can show them to you of

hundreds and hundreds and hundreds in the United States, boy babies who've died or or had life-threatening infections as a result of this disgusting practice that you that a person as humane as yourself can sit here and be and think of that as a fit subject for humor, shows

what I mean religion makes morally normal people say and do disgusting and wicked things and you've just proved my point for that shame on you for saying what you just said shame on you for saying it about your own son my god let's move on yes L

what next cutting the labia of little girls at least Judaism doesn't do that this is a question what what if what if a Muslim was to say to you just now my little girl cried more at her first haircut than when I cut off her clitoris

what would you think of me if I was to say such a disgusting thing well remember we are not talking about detail here we're talking about whether religion makes people behave better or not let's give the rabbi I wanted to move on but let's give the rabbi a

chance to respond to because it got pretty personal here so again my experience in my own son my own grandson hundreds of congregants has been that it's not nothing like what you're talking about and that for whatever reason that this has become an issue for you I just think is uh is

excessive what do you mean by that what do you mean by that that I'm more personally there's an undertone of innuendo to this let's bring it on no there's no innuendo there what I'm saying is sure you know I've lived

through this personally and you've inflicted it is what you're saying I what you've inflicted it or officiated at it is what you're saying isn't it well officiated yes inflicted no uh forget my modities my modities has his hangups about I should forget my

commodities since when do you say that because on issues of sexuality my commodities has some very *mealy* ideas uh I ran across the line in your book that Orthodox Jews have sex through a hole in a bed sheet do you know Orthodox Jews who told you they have sex

that way no no I say it is said of Orthodox Jews that they *may* do that all right gentlemen I'm sorry to break this up that's a that's a reformed Jewish uh rumor about Orthodoxy we have a lot of questions from the audience and

I want to give others a chance *genital* mutilation is no joke

Christopher Hitchens Goes After Rabbi Harold Kushner re: Circumcision

CTFORUM

The question of why bad people get away with bad things, particularly murder, is raised.

The speaker suggests that people ultimately pay for their actions, whether immediately or later in life.

Even those who seemingly escape consequences, like Bernard Madoff, miss out on essential aspects of human experience.

The example of someone cheating on their spouse highlights the idea of paying for actions in different ways.

The discussion transitions to a professor's perspective on the topic.

A professor proposes a different book title focusing on good people committing wicked acts.

The concept of original sin is mentioned as a theological explanation.

The discussion centers on individuals intending to do good but unintentionally causing harm.

St. Paul's quote about the conflict between intention and action is brought up.

Confession, forgiveness, and amendment of life are presented as responses to this moral dilemma.

Religious practices and their consequences

An example of extreme actions (genital mutilation) is given, highlighting how religion can compel people to commit harmful acts.

The speaker criticizes religion's role in causing suffering and the lack of sufficient apologies.

A disagreement arises concerning the comparison of circumcision to genital mutilation.

The speaker argues against trivializing genital mutilation and emphasizes its potential harm.

The speaker details the potential physical and psychological consequences of female genital mutilation.

Evidence of deaths and infections resulting from the practice is mentioned.

Further discussion on religious practices and their impact

The discussion shifts to female genital mutilation in the context of Islam.

The rabbi defends his practices, contrasting them with the described harmful acts.

The discussion becomes more personal and accusatory.

The conversation touches upon the speaker's personal experiences and accusations against the rabbi.

A controversial claim about Orthodox Jewish sexual practices is introduced and refuted.

The discussion concludes with a strong statement against genital mutilation.